Episode Description
Lauren sits down with David Buck, author of “The Time Optimized Life,” to discuss a fresh approach to time management for lawyers. Instead of rigid rules like waking up at 5 AM or checking email once daily, David introduces his PEC framework and the concept of ‘work-life flexibility.’
Learn how to identify your personal productivity zones, handle email effectively, combat smartphone distractions, and create a proactive rather than reactive schedule. David shares practical strategies for maintaining control of your time while staying available for urgent client matters, making this episode essential for any attorney seeking better time optimization.
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Episode Transcript
DAVID: [00:00:00] As entrepreneurs, we can get really consumed into the business heavily to sometimes the expense of our personal side of life. And so I push a phrase called work life flexibility instead of work life balance, because I think it’s really hard to maintain that balance.
LAUREN: Welcome to a different practice. I’m your host, Lauren Lester, and I’m passionate about helping solo attorneys build thriving practices.
After starting my own solo firm straight out of law school. School and building it to a successful practice that earns well over six figures while working part-time. I’m here to share the tools and strategies that made it possible. Think of this as grabbing coffee with your work bestie while learning everything they didn’t teach you about running a business in law school.
Pull up a seat and get ready to build a different practice. Hello friends. Welcome to another episode of A Different Practice. Tell me if you’ve ever heard one of these. Get up at 5 a. m. Spend the first two hours of your [00:01:00] day doing deep work. Only check email once a day. If you’ve ever looked for some productivity advice, you’ve probably heard tips like these from time management experts.
And let’s be honest, they sound great in theory, but they don’t work for everyone. And I don’t know about you, but I’m not getting up at 5 a. m., especially when my kid was up during the night. Plus, I love my sleep. I’m gonna get my 8 hours. So if I wake up at 5 a. m., that means I have to be asleep by 9 p. m.,
which means I’m going to bed at 8 p. m., and that just doesn’t work for my life. On top of that, my brain isn’t ready for deep work first thing in the morning. I’m half awake still. So I like to have slow mornings where I ease into the day and wake my brain up with movement. That’s what gets me going. And only checking email once a day sounds magical, but in what world is that realistic for most of us?
As we kicked off this new year, if you’re like me, you’ve probably been thinking about goals and how to be more [00:02:00] productive. And I think having a plan is good, but we need one that works for us individually. That’s why I’m ready to talk to today’s guest. I’m speaking with David Buck, who has developed something different when it comes to time management.
A flexible schedule that customizes to your life. David doesn’t preach a rigid set of rules to follow that can often feel like trying to fit a square piece into the complex puzzle of your life that’s full of curves and unique shapes. Instead, David introduces us to what he calls the PEC framework Preparation, Execution, and Control.
It’s a continuous cycle that helps optimize your time rather than just managing it. What’s unique about David’s approach is that Is that it’s not just about following someone else’s rigid rules. Instead, he shows us how to build a personalized system across five key areas. Planning. Task management, internal focus, external focus, and organization.
And what I particularly love is how he acknowledges that what works [00:03:00] for one person might not work for someone else. Something his wife Susan, a fellow mom, demonstrates beautifully in chapter 9 of David’s book. And the fact that David had her include this chapter about what works for her and how it’s different from what works for David really shows that he is committed to this personalized system.
So in today’s conversation, we dig into what David means by time optimization and why it’s different than traditional time management, the biggest time wasting thing that we do and how we can fix it. Yay. Love a good solution. How to deal with the distractions. Hello, distractions, anyone while still being available for urgent matters.
Hello, every attorney, right. And how to finally fix our unhealthy relationship with drum roll, please. Email. All of our favorites before we jump in. Let me tell you a bit about David and his 35 plus years of business development. David developed a keen awareness of what it actually [00:04:00] takes for people to be productive and efficient, not just busy.
This led him to start Karios management solutions, where he guides business professionals who struggle with a lack of flexibility in their life. In 2024, he released the time optimized life, which is a Which reframes the reactive nature of time management and replaces it with a proactive method of time optimization.
You’ll want to grab a coffee. If you’re ready for a realistic and workable approach to being more productive and having more flexibility. Sounds good to me. So let’s dive in to my conversation with David Buck. All right. Welcome David to a different practice.
DAVID: honored to be here. Thank you, Lauren.
Appreciate it.
LAUREN: So you have been focusing on guiding business professionals who struggle with a lack of flexibility in their life. And I feel like I know I do for my own personal experience, but lawyers fall squarely into the center of that group of people. And I think that’s even more pronounced for law firm owners who are juggling all [00:05:00] the things in their business.
And one of the benefits of entrepreneurship and the reason that I went on this journey as I wanted to have more control over my own time. I hear from a lot of colleagues who work as employees for firms that they’re just handed work. They don’t get to choose. They’re told when they need to be there and when they can be at home.
And so being an entrepreneur really gives you that flexibility. But it also, on the flip side, requires that you wear all the hats. And there’s more to do than just the actual work of being a lawyer. So I wanted to start with your approach to time management, how we can get better control so we have that flexibility that we all long for, and why your approach may be different than some of the others out there.
DAVID: And you’re right, there is a lot of approaches to time management. And whether you choose Mine, how my philosophy or whatever, I just highly, first of all, encourage everybody get some structure around how you use your time so [00:06:00] that it works for your situation. And I have a concept called time optimization, and I am not so much a fan of the term time management.
Not that there’s anything wrong with management or that sort of thing, but really what I find when people are trying to manage their time, they’re very reactive. And so something comes at them and it’s kind of a last in first out mentality. And they might invest that time very, very well, but then they have three, four other things that they should have done that now they have to try to retool into their schedule.
And so my system of time optimization is I want you to flip the script. I want you to be more proactive, to intentionally set time to figure out what you think the future might look like, knowing it will change. But by simply doing that exercise, you set yourself up so that you’re being able to negotiate time better and to be able to adjust things if they come up instead [00:07:00] of reacting to the first thing that comes at you.
LAUREN: Yes, being very reactionary resonates with me for sure. When you say setting up more of a proactive approach, I immediately thought of time blocking. Is that kind of the direction that you’re it something different?
DAVID: I do a modified version of time blocking, but yes in essence, it is you setting up and deciding how your, how your schedule is going to look.
And I know, you know, obviously with lawyers, they want to be available for clients because normally someone, Contacting you. It’s pretty important, but still within that time frame in the system that I do is you block off or you schedule every hour of your calendar, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you block that time.
That is a trigger for you to understand. I want to work on this. Now, if it’s an a priority high priority, then you may want to block it off and say, I need to protect my time. Regardless of whether [00:08:00] clients are, but the simple fact that if you’re going to schedule that time, again, that puts you in a position to negotiate.
So if a client comes to you, you can say, wow, okay, that’s not a huge priority. It’s important. Let me negotiate a future time that works best for both of us versus stopping what I’m doing to address it.
LAUREN: That makes a lot of sense in it. It definitely feels like it puts the control back in our laps versus being very reactionary to whatever is popping up in front of us.
And then the snowball just happens. Cause like you said, the three things I needed to get done now aren’t done. And now there’s five things to get done and then it just gets bigger and bigger. And you just, I never feel like I can get ahead of it or any sort of control over it. What do you find is the most.
Surprising time wasting habit or where the control gets lost the most, especially among professionals. Is it the distractions or is it something else that we’re doing that’s really kind of sabotaging our success in this [00:09:00] area?
DAVID: So overall, I’ve done hundreds of assessments as part of, as I work with clients, I have a tool that I use and it’s 20 attributes and distractions is the number one challenge that everybody Has to deal with and or they struggle to deal with and I define a distraction as an internal disruption You own it it’s on you in which you allow yourself to be shifted from something important to less important and the Single biggest culprit of that is the amazing smartphone It has changed our lives in many ways for the good and that we’re now more productive But at the same time, it is designed through either its own use or the apps we put on there.
They’re designed to draw us to consume time on it. And that’s where I find the biggest challenge for people. They realize, Wow. You know, particularly if I ask a client track your time for 30 days, they’ll come [00:10:00] back and say, I can’t believe how much time I’m wasting on the phone.
LAUREN: What’s what’s hilarious to me is at least my phone has the ability to go in and look at that data.
And then it’s like, it almost seems counterintuitive. Cause it’s like, do they really want me to realize how much time I’m spending on this thing? But it’s, there’s an easy tool. If you’re curious to go and look at your. Your time spending habits for 30 days and see, you know, you may not think it’s as much, but when you go back and look, the data can be surprising.
DAVID: And what I try to tell people too, is don’t try to go cold Turkey, you know, because obviously these apps are very sophisticated and designed to give us that old dopamine hit that we can go after. So if you find yourself, I’m on my phone two hours a day, don’t try to say tomorrow, I’m going to go, I’m going to, you know, throw the cigarettes away and start cold Turkey.
Just say, how can I do next week? A half an hour less a day. So maybe it’s only an hour and a half. So then you’re like, I have found 30 minutes of time, but then you’re dedicated and say, what am I going to do in this free 30 minutes that I’m giving myself, [00:11:00] that’s going to heighten my overall productivity.
LAUREN: One of the other distractions that I find, and this is linked to the phone, but in particular, even when I have my phone away and I’m working at my computer is email, I. Have tried so many different systems to stay out of email because it just keeps coming in. And then it’s just like the shiny object with the squirrel.
And I’m like, Oh, the next thing. So I would love to be able to have those periods of time where I know generally what I would like to focus on. Certainly understanding there’s, there needs to be some flexibility in our business, but do you find that other professionals struggle with email and what can we do?
to have it be less of a distraction or less of something that’s pulling our attention away.
DAVID: Email, obviously, is a huge communication tool that has evolved and it’s part of, obviously, what we do in business and even in personal life. And I have found that, again, trying to [00:12:00] structure it, the vast majority of the emails that we receive don’t need to be answered right away.
Now there can be exceptions to that, but still I have found that no one has like freaked out because I waited 24 hours to respond to something. So my rule of thumb is. Is first of all, define if you’re struggling with email, define times when you’re going to look at email. And I ask people to do it outside their productivity zone.
Cause email’s a pretty easy activity to do. That doesn’t necessarily require a lot of brainpower. And I steal this, this tip from a book called getting things done by David Allen. It was written decades ago. And he has like the 30 second rule in effect, I have to make three decisions. So I look at that email.
Am I going to respond to it? Am I going to delete it? Cause I just don’t need to do anything with [00:13:00] it. Or am I going to file it, meaning I’m going to assign a future time that I’m going to look at it. So those and. In that way, if you do that, you remove it from your inbox. So one way or the other, it’s out.
And you define those times during, again, low productivity times. So you’re not freaking out that you have. I have people who have like 17, 000 emails in their inbox. And I go, what, what are you doing with those? Tell me what’s happened. I just
LAUREN: instantly got anxiety. Oh, my gosh.
DAVID: Yes. So I try to clear my inbox at the end of every day.
I’m not always totally successful, but there’s usually at the most three or four at the end of the day, because I know somewhere along the line, either I got to take a future action because it’s there or I’ve already addressed it.
LAUREN: So it sounds like if it’s something you can address quickly during your email addressing time, not like throughout the day, you’d go ahead and knock it out.
Delete it if you [00:14:00] don’t need it. And then if it requires some sort of additional, more involved work, it is filing it somewhere, but then having a system where you don’t forget about it. So you’re putting it on some sort of task list. I’m guessing to say, make sure you follow back up with John Smith about X, Y, and Z.
DAVID: Perfect. And one of the things that you can do proactively as well is particularly if you pick up a new client is to remind them of your rules of how you’re going to respond to simply say, Hey, listen, I have a 24 hour rule generally. So whether you want to set up some type of code, whether they need to put, if they need something sooner than 24 hours, then they can put in the subject line less than 24 hours.
But you, you begin to train your clients that, Hey, I’m not going to hear from Dave. For 24 hours, unless it’s urgent. And if it is urgent, I know what to do to get his attention.
LAUREN: No, that makes a lot of sense. And it [00:15:00] definitely makes email seem a little bit more manageable. that’s what I really struggle with is like, well, I have to do something about this thing.
So then I leave it in my inbox, but then my inbox gets crazy. And so that, that system sounds much more effective. I’ll definitely implement that and try it out. I want to go back. Cause you mentioned the, I think you called them productivity zones. Sort of times of the day where you should be focusing on certain types of work.
Can you explain a little bit more about what those zones are and how to identify them for us as individuals? Because I’m assuming it’s not everybody from eight to ten. It doesn’t work for everybody. So what should we be thinking of for ourselves to block out that, I shouldn’t say block, to prioritize that time for?
DAVID: So each of us has a time during the day Based upon our own natural rhythm, where we’re going to be the most productive for me, I it’s in the morning. It’s because it’s how my time, how I’m wired, how I set my day up, [00:16:00] but others, it can be the afternoon. I’ve had some people it’s the evening, man. After, after they’ve eaten dinner, they get this burst of energy.
So wherever that, that zone is at, then you try to do whatever you can to do focused work during that time. timeframe. Now somebody might be saying, well, okay, yeah, I am a night person, but I’m not going to bother my clients at night. So you can shift your productivity zone. It just takes time. What are the rhythm on when you sleep, what you do lower level activities in your zone.
So you can shift your zone. So if you’re an. morning person, you can shift it to the afternoon or evening. It just, just takes time, but whatever zone you’re in right now, if it works for you, that needs to be the most dedicated, focused work that you want to do, because you know, you’re going to be at your heightened productivity.
LAUREN: Are there actions that we should take during that time that help with that? I mean, is this literally [00:17:00] closing the email application, Turning off the phone. Is it to that level so we can really be focused and not have those distractions or is flexibility allowed if, like you said, a client calls and if we have, if our productivity zone is during the business hours and a client calls with something that is truly urgent, can we allow, I guess, that to come in to have that alert happen, I guess I’m struggling with how then do I not have all the other un, urgent alerts also distract me during that time.
DAVID: So let’s just say your productivity zone is from nine to two. So you look at that nine to two timeframe. You don’t necessarily have to say, I’m going to do everything dedicated during this timeframe, but you’re going to say, you know what, from 10 to 11, I have got to get this brief done. I’ve got to do this research for the case, whatever it is.
And you’re going to say, I am owning that time short of a zombie apocalypse. [00:18:00] Nobody’s bugging me. And so, so then you dedicate that, but then you might say, okay, from 11 to 12, I’ve got this other important project I’ve got to work on, but I am going to keep an eye open because I know during the rhythm of my clients, I typically do get A lot of inquiries during that timeframe.
So you can understand through the rhythm of your day, generally how your clients reach out to you. And you may want to adjust the activities that you do, even if it is in your productivity.
LAUREN: That makes a lot of sense when we’re putting these zones and time periods, are these like physically should be on our calendars as Different colors.
Is that kind of the best way to approach it? Or is it something you have on the side of your computer monitor? I’m just thinking it would be nice if it’s in my calendar, but it’s going to be layered on all the other stuff in my calendar and then my calendar may feel overwhelming because there’s just so much stuff on it, but how do we.
How do we keep [00:19:00] track of what we should, what we want to do?
DAVID: I use what I call a two week rule, and I use the analogy of wet cement, so that you set the foundation two weeks out. You plan every hour. Doesn’t have to be specifically what you’re going to do, but if you’re going to say, I’m working on briefs that could be in this particular area, whatever you’re doing, you’re saying, I’m laying out what I want to do for every hour, two weeks out.
And the wet cement analogy comes in is that when you. concrete, it takes time to cure and you still have time to manipulate it before it becomes solid. And so you try to predict what your future is going to be like. And you adjust accordingly. And so it’s not setting that two weeks out and just saying, forgetting about it.
But then what I do is every day in the morning, I got checked my day and just say, what am I going to do? Is this still what I want to do? And then at the end of the day, again, only 10 minutes or so, I look back and say, what did I do? What do I maybe have to readjust going forward? [00:20:00] So it becomes a continuous cycle.
So the only time the cement is hard, It’s because it’s the past and you’ve already locked that in into case so it is a constant iterative process and that’s where some people, I challenged him I said it sounds counterintuitive, but you have to spend time to save time. And by doing that, you’ll get into a rhythm that works well for you.
LAUREN: Is there a task management system or software that you use kind of in conjunction with this to know what you might need to work on? I’m looking two weeks ahead and I have my sort of deep work period. And for me, that typically is going to involve some sort of drafting. I just maybe don’t know what.
Client I’m going to be drafting for. Like you said, is there a good way to incorporate the actual tasks of what half has to be done that day in particular with that time block so that it’s easier to [00:21:00] manage?
DAVID: Perfect. I love how you put that out there. I would try to tell people you can start very simple.
If you have an email 98 percent of us who have emails. Have a exchange server with a calendar and a task function already built into it. So whether you use Apple, Google, or Microsoft, it’s there. The functionality is in essence, the same between three with some differences. So to me, it is, you align your calendar up with what you want to do.
And then specifically you can say, okay, I’ve got these tasks that tie back to That particular timeframe. And then if obviously many of us as entrepreneurs have some type of customer relationship management tool, or CRM, if you have that, you can link those three together. And I think once you have those, I really feel the vast majority of us.
As entrepreneurs have what we need to be organized for [00:22:00] ourselves and to be readily available for our clients.
LAUREN: When someone implements your system to start to take this approach, what is one or several things maybe that you find that they get tripped up with? I feel like this is something I will do really well for two weeks and then it will slow down.
Slip back off, not because that’s my intention, but just because it’s hard to make a change like this and it’s hard to implement a new habit. Is there something in particular that you find folks get tripped up with that we can pay attention to so we can kind of see it happening to ourselves and try and avoid that detour?
DAVID: So as you evaluate, I’m sure most of us can say, man, I struggle with. These three things, you know, challenge, I’m distracted all the time. I have a tendency to procrastinate. I’m late for meetings, whatever it is that you throw those in there. My recommendation is write down what you think your opportunities [00:23:00] are, then rank them.
And start with the first one and forget about the others. And the reason why I say, quote, forget about it is when you focus on the one, so much of what we are, challenges are interrelated. So if I am my number one time management challenges, distractions, and I’m supposed to be the time management guy that helps people, but it’s my deal.
Now what I find is though, when I’m really dedicated and pushing myself not to be distracted, I’m less apt to procrastinate and delay. Why? Because I’m focusing my time and effort where I need to be when I’m not distracted, I’m more focused. So therefore I’m ready to handle interruptions if they come my way.
So pick one, dive into that. And you’ll find net benefits in other areas as well.
LAUREN: I can really see as you’re talking. I’m, I’m putting this together in my brain of like, okay, how would I do this and implemented? And yep, that really makes sense. [00:24:00] And that resonates with me. And I can see a ton of benefits of this, just feeling like I have more control over my day.
I don’t feel so chaotic, but also there are. Things I need to work on within my business. There are projects that I want to do, and I struggle with finding time to do those because they typically are more of those deep work moments. I can’t do them in 10 minute spurts here and there. So as you’re talking, I’m thinking, well, if I can get this into place, I could have the time once a week or once every other week, whatever works for me to be able to work on the business because I want to do some more marketing.
Collateral, or I need to fix some templates or all that stuff that keeps going down and down and down my to do list every week. What are some of the benefits that you’ve seen in working with professionals when they have implemented your system and really been able to ingrain it into their daily practice?
DAVID: Well, I also, you know, as entrepreneurs, we can get really consumed into the business heavily to [00:25:00] sometimes the expense of our personal side of life. And so I push a phrase called work life flexibility instead of work life balance, because I think it’s really hard to maintain that balance. So when you get going and thinking about optimization and being proactive in trying to figure out what your time’s going to be like, adapt it as it needs to go through, what I find is, is then you are ready to be available.
So when the business needs you. When you have to work more, the private side or the personal side of your life knows it because you’re saying this is what’s coming up. Likewise, on the professional side of the business, when you maybe need to step back a little bit because something personal is need your attention, you’re able to adapt and adjust to that in such a way that the business isn’t going to fall apart because you’re again, you’re seeking constant flexibility in those various areas of your life.
LAUREN: No, that, [00:26:00] that makes so much sense. And I, again, I think that’s why a lot of us are entrepreneurs. Cause we wanted to be able to be on that spectrum as life required of us. And, you know, even for simple things of being able to take vacations or go for a walk in the middle of the day, even littler things, this system really lends itself to, to make sure that all of that is on The same playing field.
It just matter is just a matter of when you, when you can plug it in and what needs to have more of your time focus for that particular day or week.
DAVID: Perfect. Yep, exactly.
LAUREN: I’m actually going to jump back as you were talking. I thought back to the productivity zones. Can you give us some examples of. What those would be like the ones I can think of are maybe checking email, which we’ve talked about drafting is pretty common for attorneys, but what are some other examples that the folks that you work with, just to give us some ideas of what would we call these time zones and what would our focus be during them?
DAVID: [00:27:00] This is where I think it’s really important, particularly for us as entrepreneurs is we get sucked into tactics, you know, I’ve got to do X, Y, Z. Some administrative thing pops up. So the productivity zones for me are those things that you’re going to say that will drive Your business, whether it is, cause obviously as entrepreneurs, we got to worry about, well, what’s my go to marketing strategy, or is there a tech, do I need to adapt my tech stack in order to be able to have tools that align better with my business?
Or I have been thinking about branching out in this particular area here. Those are all the best times for productivity zones. When you get to live in the strategy and innovation areas of life and keep the tactical stuff. In the outside of those zones, because you can do those maybe when the energy [00:28:00] levels not that well, you can do those when notifications are coming through on your phone and you maybe check something.
And so as much as you can figure out what’s going to drive your business and let those be. The areas you work on in the productivity zone
LAUREN: that really helped solidify it is under the umbrella of what’s going to move the business forward. And that may be directly revenue generating things for us as attorneys.
That could be deep work that we need to do as counselors and advocates. But it can also be like you said, the marketing side or I want to update my tech or I want to explore this new opportunity. But it’s really Checking it against the litmus test of is this moving the business forward?
DAVID: Well stated.
LAUREN: So you have a new book out called The Time Optimized Life.
Can you tell us a little bit about it and then where folks can get it?
DAVID: So The Time Optimized Life actually was born from, and the assessment tool I mentioned earlier, the time management analysis. [00:29:00] And I found after hundreds of people took those, there were certain patterns. That came above and we’ve talked about reactive versus proactive.
That’s in essence, what time optimization is, but it’s not a checklist for you to say, if I do these 10 things, my life is going to change immensely because my life is different than your life, Lauren, than everybody else’s. So the idea of the time optimized life is for you to go through, you’ll identify the areas in your life where you’re strong and how can you be stronger at those.
And then you identify the opportunities. of where you can improve and there’s ways, exercises and avenues you can take within the book that help you do that. And it’s available where all major online retailers have it, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all those. But if you’re like, Well, I need to know a little bit more about this optimization thing before I’m going to sign up for this.
Then if you want to go to my website at infinity lifestyle [00:30:00] design. com again, infinity lifestyle design. com, you can download chapter one and kind of gives you a good overview of what optimization is. And then if you want to. Go further, it’ll give you a link to where you can get it.
LAUREN: Perfect. We will link both of those in the show notes so folks can access them.
I think this would be just an incredibly helpful tool, especially for us as attorneys, I know as a profession, we struggle with this. So thank you so much for putting those resources together. Any last tip that you would leave the audience with in terms of the best way that they can get started?
DAVID: I would emphasize one word and that is patience.
The idea that. It’s anything good always takes longer than expected. So if you’re getting ready to do something that’s very important to you, try to figure out how much time it’s going to take, then add at least 50 percent onto it because anything that’s good takes longer. And then that way, [00:31:00] if it does, you’re not freaking out because where do I find this time for this important thing?
And if you get it done sooner than that, yay, quote, found time. Go do something either fun or dive into something else, more productive.
LAUREN: That’s so great. As somebody who’s very impatient, I very much appreciate your response, but like, really, that’s the answer. But you are spot on. I can look back and I was instantly thinking of like, yep, there was that thing I thought was only going to take that period of time and it took way longer and I got stressed out about it.
So there’s much wisdom in that as hard as it may be for some of us inpatient folks to hear. Sure.
DAVID: Well, I have, it’s, it’s from self actualization and realization myself. So learned by my, by my own mistakes.
LAUREN: And that’s where the best wisdom comes from. So I appreciate your sharing it with us. So the rest of us can learn based on your experience and your knowledge for all that you’ve done.
So thank you so much for your time today. This has been really helpful and I, I’m excited to [00:32:00] implement these, these tools and approaches and hopefully get much better control over my time.
DAVID: Honor. Thank you, Lauren for having me. I really appreciate it.
LAUREN: Thanks for joining me on another episode of a different practice.
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