Episode Description
What if the biggest impact on your law practice had nothing to do with business strategies or marketing? In this enlightening episode, leadership coach Andrea Johnson reveals how understanding and honoring your core values can transform your legal career. We dive deep into the difference between professional expectations and authenticity, how to navigate workplace dynamics while staying true to yourself, and why leading yourself first is crucial for success.
Whether you’re feeling stuck in a practice that doesn’t quite fit or simply curious about building a more fulfilling career, this conversation offers practical insights on breaking free from conventional molds while maintaining professionalism. Discover how to identify your core values and use them as a compass for making decisions that align with your authentic self.
Listen now!
Episode Resources
Core Values Excercise (Free PDF)
Connect with Andrea on LinkedIn
Episode Transcript
ANDREA: [00:00:00] If we’re doing something just for the money, our heart’s not in it. The people working with this will know it. If you’re at a practice that only values you for the hours you’re putting in, there’s no soul in that business.
LAUREN: Welcome to a different practice. I’m your host, Lauren Lester, and I’m passionate about helping solo attorneys build thriving practices after starting my own solo firm straight out of law school and building it to a successful practice that earns well over six figures while working part time. I’m here to share the tools and strategies that made it possible. Think of this as grabbing coffee with your work bestie while learning everything they didn’t teach you about running a business in law school, pull up a seat and get ready to build a different practice.
Hey everyone, welcome to A Different Practice. I am so glad you are here today and that we are spending this time together. So check this out. What if I told you the thing that had the biggest impact on my practice in the last few years [00:01:00] had nothing to do with business? It wasn’t a new process, a new piece of technology, or a marketing strategy.
Although I love those, and they can be extremely impactful on the quality of service and my bottom line, and they have been for sure over the years. If I had to pinpoint one thing. They weren’t the thing that really made me feel like I hit my stride as a solo, like I had settled in and owned being an entrepreneur.
Maybe for you, this shows up because you feel like you’re wearing a mask at work. Like there’s this unspoken tension between who you really are and who you think you need to be as a lawyer, as a solo, as a member of the profession. You can see how that might hold you back from really taking off because you’ve always got this weight that you’re carrying.
So what made the biggest impact for me when I realized I was wearing that mask when I was carrying that weight? Like I said, it had nothing to do with the business itself. It was all internal [00:02:00] work. Once I identified my values as a human being and showed up every day in a way that was aligned with them, even at work.
I didn’t leave them at the door when I came to work. That’s when things took off. For me, this meant scheduling time to move every morning, even though it meant I was gonna start work after 10 a. m., sometimes 11 a. m. And here’s the most important part. Not apologizing for that. So that meant when somebody asked me to have a meeting at 9, if it wasn’t mission critical, I would respond saying, I’m sorry that time doesn’t work for me.
I don’t have to explain why it doesn’t work, but the important part was taking that step to say we’ve got to find a different time. For me, this also means spending time with my family and not being distracted by my phone or answering emails. It’s important to me as a mom to get up with my kids in the morning, to be there and make them breakfast, to pick them up from school, to go to their events, to have family time in the evening, [00:03:00] to do fun things on the weekends.
I know I only get a limited amount of time with them and I don’t want. them to look back and say, man, mom was always working. I have my time to work and I have my family time and man, that family time is precious to me and I’m not going to sacrifice it to answer emails. And for me, it also meant that I had to embrace that I’m kind of goofy and I’m not always polished and I don’t always say the right thing and I’m not always super articulate.
But showing up and showing my clients that personality without worrying about what they might think, or that I’m quote, not professional enough. Now I did this work through lots of therapy over several years, but today we’re going to get a little cheat code. We’re going to chat with someone who can help us streamline the process.
My guest had a fascinating revelation about this very challenge during a pivotal moment in her career. So she gets it. And that was a moment that completely transformed her approach to [00:04:00] legal leadership. Today we’re exploring how understanding your core values isn’t just some feel good exercise. It’s actually a powerful tool that can reshape your entire approach to practicing law.
From personal experience, this is true. We’ll discuss how to navigate those professional stereotypes that seem to box us in. I hate those, but they are always around us. We’ll discover what really makes lawyers effective leaders beyond just their legal expertise. And we’ll tackle that nagging worry that being authentic might somehow make us Less professional.
My guest today is Andrea Johnson, a leadership coach, who’s made it her mission to help executives and founders lead with authentic conviction and confidence through her work on covering core values and implementing what she calls the six tenants of intentional optimism. Andrea has been particularly passionate about empowering female leaders to reshape.
Professional culture. She helps her clients harness their natural [00:05:00] abilities to think critically, create imaginatively and lead effectively. So whether you’re feeling stuck in a way of practice that does, doesn’t quite fit, or you’re just simply curious about how to build a more fulfilling career. That sounds lovely.
You are in for a treat. Let’s jump into my conversation with Andrea Johnson. Welcome Andrea to a different practice.
ANDREA: Thank you, Lauren. I’m excited to be here.
LAUREN: I’m thrilled to chat with you. We were chatting about this a little bit offline, but now that we’ve hit the record button, the reason that you popped out to me. as a potential guest was we have a really big problem in the legal profession, forcing folks to fit into a very specific mold. And I’ve talked to a lot of colleagues who say, you know, I feel like I have to hide part of myself, most of myself to get ahead in this practice or to be [00:06:00] accepted in this practice or to be seen as successful or as a good lawyer.
And so we really run up against that a lot. And part of why I wanted to have this discussion today Was because I know a lot of listeners. I know if I felt this way, have really struggled to figure out how do I show up authentically and be accepted and be seen as successful. And a lot of that is defining success individually for ourselves and not sort of taking the definition that’s put upon us, but really that speaking to that authenticity approach.
I was hoping that you could give us wisdom and inspiration and some practical advice on how we can do this better because I think it will only make the profession better and make us serve our clients better. So I know that you talk a lot about how core values can really change the way Each of us practice law and that it’s really not what you, what we do, but who we are, that makes us a valuable and impactful leader and member of the legal profession.
[00:07:00] So I wanted to take a step back and just learn a little more about you and have you share maybe a moment that you had in your career that made you realize the importance of core values and why you’ve really dedicated your work to helping others see that in themselves.ANDREA: Well, first off, we also talked offline about how wonderful the questions are that you kind of gave me as just a guideline of what we’re going to look at, and I thought, oh my gosh, she’s really a lawyer, this Thanks This is really cool because I can tell that you had a direction that you’re going.
It was very intentional and as the intentional optimist, which is the name of my business, I appreciate that. So those of you who are listening, know that you’ve got a host that really cares about you and really wants to make sure that you get something valuable. So I hope that what I offer today is also helpful.
I can tell you for a fact that you are not alone. And that the law profession is not alone. I have only worked with one set of lawyers that was back earlier this year and we did some leadership stuff there with them and [00:08:00] I absolutely loved being in the room because my brain loves being stimulated by people who love to stimulate their brains.
And if If there’s one profession where they love to stimulate their brains, it’s lawyers. So, and my best friend, her dad was a lawyer and she was going to do it. And then she didn’t thought better about it. And it’s like, but it’s like living with a lawyer all the time. So my heart is full and ready to share.
And I’m excited about this. My career was spent. I just was laughing about this with my husband recently in the, maybe. 28 to 30 years that I spent working for someone else, right? I’m, I’m just putting it out there, I’m 58 and I’m self employed and as a consultant and a coach. But in the years that I spent working for someone else, only two of those were working for an organization that was not an institute of higher learning in the graduate level.
Most of that, part of that was theological education. I have nearly a master’s of divinity, but the rest of that was all in schools of medicine. So I have been around doctors for my entire [00:09:00] career. If there is a profession that is similar to being a lawyer as far as what’s accepted, what’s expected, the things that you have to do, the things that you have to say, it’s going to be the medical profession.
And so I just want you to know I’m coming at it, not from a lawyer’s perspective, but from somebody who’s worked with people who dedicate years and years and years and years of their lives because they believe in what they want to do, which is what I think lawyers also do. And they know that there are certain things they can say and they can’t say.
And I loved working with the newer attendings where I could actually kind of help. As an administrative manager or operations manager, I could help them understand, look, you have to be invested in what you do. And if you can’t find a way to manage who you are in the middle of that, you’re going to burn out.
So for me, the core values journey started about 30 years ago when I read, I was Franklin Covey user and I read Stephen Covey’s book. And in the very back, it said, what are your governing values? And [00:10:00] if we are on video, I would haul out my list and show it to you because I still have it. It’s laminated with packing tape.
And. And that was the first time anybody said, what is important to you? Because not only do I have the background or have I grown up and, and my career was in medicine, but I grew up in evangelical South. So I have very clear expectations of what a woman is supposed to be and what I’m supposed to say and do, or I had them, I’ve challenged them a lot the last eight to 10 years.
And I watched my mother kind of put herself in that mold, even though she was. Brilliant. She figured out how to lead from behind. She figured out ways to get around it. But I said, you know, I, at 50, I lost her to breast cancer. And I said, I don’t want the rest of my, my other 50 years. We’re just gonna be hopeful to be this way.
I had an eight year old adopted son. And I said, I want him to see something different. My mother was fulfilled and she did great things, but. I wanted to do something different. And so when I started looking at how am I going to be different, [00:11:00] I did my own work. And then I started looking at being, becoming a coach.
I then became certified with the Maxwell leadership, international leadership program, speaker trainer coach. And I started really looking at core values as opposed to just values. And when I started looking at core values, I realized, oh my goodness, this is why not honoring my core values. That’s why I feel all this cognitive dissonance all the time.
And I get to use big words on this podcast. That’s fun. I realized that the things that didn’t make sense to me at eight shouldn’t make sense to me at 50, the things that I. I didn’t like at eight, I don’t like them at 50, but I was accepting them and I shouldn’t have to accept them. And I think the thing that’s really important is to understand that if we’re doing something just for the money, our heart’s not in it.
The people working with us will know it. If you’re at a practice that only values you for the hours you’re putting in, there’s no soul in that business. And if you’ve dedicated your life to something. [00:12:00] You need to be able to break out of the mold that other people have, I just, I read something else this morning about the, the history that we have is not what we pass on.
We borrow the future from our kids and from those that come after us, and then we hand it back to them better than we found it, right? We don’t have to keep doing the same thing over and over. And so for somebody who understands the idea of fitting into a stereotype, which we have everywhere, I would just say, We need to decide what stereotypes we want to accept, which ones are acceptable to us and which ones are not, and you know, in the higher education system, it was about paper production, you know, you had to put out papers out, you had to get research dollars, and I think the thing that I would point out is there’s a difference between professional expectations and being authentic.
So if you are looking at professional expectations as wearing the right clothes or going to the right bars or hanging out with the right people and playing the right golf and doing [00:13:00] going to the right resorts or whatever, you know, I mean, I’m just, that’s a purely a stereotype of my own. Then I would say, yeah, That’s something that you shouldn’t squeeze yourself into.
But if your expectations are things like professional communication, ethics, customer and client service, honesty, trustworthiness, all of those things are important and those are the things that are inside you. Because I didn’t want to wear pantyhose when I worked at Johns Hopkins University, but they wanted me to, so I did.
When I hit University of Virginia, I mean, so you can see I’ve worked for good universities. When I went to university of Virginia, I said, I don’t wear pantyhose anymore, but I was old enough and I was established enough that I could say something like that. But when it came to, I wanted to train people up and out of their positions.
And they didn’t want me to do that because they wanted to hold historical knowledge within the department. I was like, no, I won’t wear pantyhose and you’ll let me do that. But I’m not going to capitulate in this area. Right. So a lot of it is no being aware of who you are and knowing how the things that you are.
Saying yes [00:14:00] to either honor or dishonor your own core values and that’s going to give you the ability to determine whether or not you can function and flourish in that environment. I know that was a really long answer, but I feel pretty strongly about this.
LAUREN: No, it gets hot. It certainly comes across opening argument.
I love it. So can you help us understand the difference? Cause you said there’s a difference between core values and values. What is the distinction there where somebody listening can start to maybe identify what are my core values? Cause there can be a lot of noise. And I know even for myself, I’m like, I don’t know, that’s going to take some thinking.
So what are we looking for when we’re trying to pinpoint a core value?
ANDREA: Yeah. So when we look at business values, I think those are important to have when we look at anything that is outside of us that we need to align ourselves with. Those are not yours. Okay. This is a really simple definition. If they’re outside of you, they are not your core values.
They might be how you express your core values. [00:15:00] But if they are inside you, that’s what your core values are. When you understand your core values, you can lead with authority, conviction, and confidence. And being able to do those things will change, it literally will change your world. When you actually understand the definition of them that way, they’re like the principles, the priorities that guide your decisions.
There’s internal values, they establish the foundation upon which everything else is built, they undergird your work, they make sure that you have everything that you need whenever you’re squeezed, and you know, when you’re really stressed, your core values are what you’re going to go back to. So when you look at, because that’s just normal.
Because this is how you’re wired. So there may be hundreds of values that we interact with on a daily basis, that there may be even hundreds that you think are important, but there are some that are so primary that they, they won’t be compromised by you without some kind of adverse effect. [00:16:00] Like I was just telling you, I’m teaching at a local community college this afternoon.
I’m teaching a course. And so it’s like pulling from my slide deck. It’s like, these are the things that they hold firm despite political, social, economic, or even technological or theological changes, like All of those things can change because these are the basic elements of who you are. They govern what you deem worthy.
They govern what you put your, your emphasis on. And they actually will define for you, use this terminology. They define what your success is. These are the things that you decide are important and whether or not you’re succeeding when you’re not going when things aren’t going well and you’re under stress you go back to them.
So these are the things like that if somebody in one of the like I have a free core values exercise that you can start on it’s just a PDF download. But one of the first questions is. If you had five people that know you well say this is what Lauren stands for, right? What would they say about you? And then you can define all of that and go down a little bit [00:17:00] deeper.
But these are ones when you, when you finally get down to them, they can’t be broken down into smaller elements like CO2. It, it, that has, that has carbon and oxygen, but it’s one of the two and eventually you will figure it out. It’s either the carbon or the oxygen. So they also are intangible and you can’t necessarily see them, but you can always see the effects.
My husband’s top core value is justice. And so for him, when someone isn’t brought to justice, That’s terrible. It’s like, he’s going to march in the streets, you know, but if he’s wrongly accused, he’s coming at you like a grizzly bear. And it’s, so it’s that kind of thing. They’re internal, but the thing I want to point out for sure is they’re not your morals.
They’re not your ethics. They’re not your beliefs. These are all changeable. These are subjective, many of them are based on what your core values are. But the thing I just mentioned here with my husband is that they’re also what I call reciprocal. I want it as much for me as I want it for you. [00:18:00] And I just mentioned a minute ago, I love getting my brain stimulated.
My top core value is freedom of thought. And so when I get mansplained or when someone tries to tell me how to think, it’s, no, you’ve touched all the buttons. It’s like being, being on the hundredth floor and somebody’s hit all the buttons on the way down and you have to stop at all of them. I’m going to walk on the stairs.
I don’t need that. And so those kinds of things, does that help you understand a little bit more clearly what I mean when I say core values?
LAUREN: Yeah, it makes a lot, a lot more sense. I kind of thought of it too, as you were talking that there likely is some sort of visceral reaction. Like you said, when it gets triggered, like your husband with justice, which is, I’m sure a lot of attorneys probably identify with, it’s sort of like you’re, you’re ready to fight someone almost.
And so I think that if someone is searching for what our mind is, maybe to look at. What really gives you that visceral reaction or what are you going to go to bat for maybe even makes you angry sometimes.
ANDREA: Oh, there’s no maybe about that. There’s no, and that’s some people when I start working with them, I’ll [00:19:00] say, okay, we’re going to start if we can’t say what gives you joy, because it may be that there’s in such a dishonored place.
That’s what the word I use is that we’re not honoring them. They may be in such a dishonored place. I say, well, then let’s just start with the things that make you angry. What did you get angry about last week? More than once, right? Okay, that’s easy. Write it down. Now. What’s the opposite of that or what would it?
What would it look like if that went? Well, that’s probably a very good clue to what your core value might be You touched it right there.
LAUREN: That’s really helpful. So yeah folks can kind of think of through their own Experiences how if we can identify our core value, but we find that it maybe is rubbing up against Professional expectations or how we’re asked to kind of show up that kind of conformity that we can often be asked to do in the legal profession.
How do we navigate staying true to our core value when it feels like we’re on a little bit of a tightrope?
ANDREA: That can be difficult, but I would say I’m [00:20:00] going to go back to what I said a minute ago. It’s like, what is your professional expectation? And if. There are rules that govern how you behave in a courtroom.
There are rules that govern probably how you, and I don’t know if you’re trial lawyers or, or IP lawyers or contract or whatever. I mean, I’m sure you’re all out there. But there are rules that are going to govern certain aspects of the work that you do, that you’re not going to compromise unless it’s just really bad, right?
But when it comes down to other things, if it’s how you dress, And a specific firm wants you to dress in a specific way, you have to balance, is this going to dishonor me or is this going to honor my core value? Maybe the way you dress is a pure expression of, that’s, maybe it’s like this authenticity might be a top core value and that’s how you express yourself.
I. I love The Lincoln Lawyer, and I love watching it on Netflix, and this woman, she just passed the bar, and she showed up in this first day in court with this striped suit on, and these heels that were just like [00:21:00] leopard print, I mean it was just gorgeous, I’m like, go girl, right? But she decided, and this is in Los Angeles, and it’s a show, right, so it doesn’t, really matter, but being able to say, there are certain things I’m not going to compromise on, and one of them might be, if it is a sense of justice, you might need to be a defense attorney, or because it’s a sense of justice, you might need to be a prosecutor, right?
So, you have to decide where You can honor your, your own core values, but as long as you know what they are, then you know whether or not you can comply. I mentioned that I was in university graduate work, and I did research administration and operations for a long time, and I was invited to come back to talk to research administrators, which is, these are the people who do the contracts for the NIH grants and all that kind of stuff.
And we manage all of the rules and regulations. So it’s just, it’s lots of regulatory work. And in prepping for that, the leaders said to me, so when you’re done, can you tell them how they can align their core values with our, our values? And I [00:22:00] said, Nope, I cannot. Doesn’t work that way. It’s not how it works.
You’re asking the wrong person. It’s. It’s helping them figure out, can my core values be honored in this situation? If not, I need to go somewhere else, which may be why you’re solo lawyers. It may be why you’re private practice lawyers, because you needed that. So you’re already on that first step, right?
And it’s just being able to determine whether or not you can function or flourish. And if you have staff, whether or informs. Why you do what you do, which then informs what you do and how you do it. It is a very specific kind of, we can try to do the what and the how, all we want first, but I learned as a 42 year old mother of a baby, adopted, that all the things I thought I knew went right out the window, and behavioral corrections only last so long.
He’s nearly 16 now, and I have, I now talk to [00:23:00] him about what’s in your heart. Right. What’s going on inside. So we have to do this for ourselves as well. We got to look in the mirror.
LAUREN: Do you have any thoughts or maybe advice for someone who understands their core values is is making those determinations on whether certain situations or certain requests are going to honor them and when they maybe step into that space are getting feedback that they are Unprofessional or less than some sort of expectation.
How do we address that concern as professionals who? Yes, I think your courtroom example was great. Like there’s a certain way we do have to show up to court. You know, we could maybe wear the suit and yes, more power to those folks. But there is other expectations and behaviors that we have. And I don’t think that anyone is going to push past that line, but there probably is a gray area [00:24:00] where other members of the profession may say you showing up authentically, are you honoring your core values is not professional enough, whatever that means.
How do we. address that concern, or maybe if that concern is coming from a potential client, is that something where we’re still choosing whether or not? We can embrace it while still honoring our core values, or we’re making tough decisions. Is that sort of that balance in that space too?
ANDREA: Yes, and I think the definition of authentic might be helpful here.
If we are defining authentic as being raw or unfiltered, then I would say there are many professions that would push back on that. Not just the law. Okay. I come from the medical profession, right? The doctors wear the white coats. Now underneath it, they might wear scrubs or they might wear a suit and a tie.
You just, everybody’s different, but they wear the white coat. And if you’re saying that that’s what authentic means, then I’m going to say, The first [00:25:00] person you lead is yourself, and you probably need to look in the mirror and say, What do I want to lead? How do I want to show up? Do I want other people to follow me?
How do I want to honor those that I’m in front of? Because it’s not just your core values that need to be honored, it’s theirs as well. Right. And now, whether colleagues are, I don’t know, maybe they’re put off by it or intimidated by it, and that a lot of times happens. We talk to leaders a lot about the fact that you can spot a grower, somebody who’s growing, miles away.
And for those who are not growing, and maybe you’re on the hamster wheel of just trying to perform, That can be very intimidating to watch somebody else grow, but there’s also nothing more inspiring than watching somebody else grow. I’ve done it. I’ve almost lost friends over it. And then they’ve come back and said, this was hard, but you’ve inspired me.
Okay, great. Let’s go together. Right? So when we, when I define authentic, I say is that you act in ways that honor your core values. So if, for [00:26:00] example, My core values are freedom of thought, belonging, I’m just gonna just put them out there just to give you an example, freedom of thought, belonging, and authenticity, and I’m still determining what that means.
I think they all kind of then diagram over each other, but for me to be able to show up that way, that means I don’t sit back and listen when somebody just says, here’s the way you’re going to think, or when someone pops into a group chat and shares a video that tells me how I’m supposed to respond to something in culture right now.
No. I don’t have to do that. And I’m to the place where I actually can say things. How I say things is where the professionality or professionalism comes in. I was making up my own word. Because I could pop in and say, well, that’s stupid. Why would you try to tell me how to think? You’re not the boss of me.
Well, I would hope that I am to the place and I walk through this with my clients because implementation and an integration of honoring your core values takes time, especially if they’ve been dishonored for a long time. We have a tendency to swing the pendulum one way or [00:27:00] the other. If that’s just human nature, it’s normal.
So if that’s you, you might need some help with something like this. And that’s cool. But you know, we call y’all counselor, but. You might need a counselor or you might need a coach, right? So if I just, if I just do that without having any kind of grace for them, if I, if I just express my own opinion and tell them what I think of the situation, it might damage the relationship.
Well, That goes against my core value of belonging, right? So it’s like, how am I going to do this in a way that honors me and them? And so when we talk about honoring our core values, it’s not about rebel without a cause. It’s really more, how can I show up as the one light bulb that’s standing up and lit when everybody else is falling over?
How can I be the tall blade of grass, even though it’s a scary thing and stand up for the thing that’s right or wrong? So when. You act in ways that honor your core values, there’s, you’re, you’re going, you’re not going to get as much of [00:28:00] that pushback. It’s, if you’re going to be emotional or unprofessional or raw, you can be if the situation really warrants it.
But balancing those expert skills, I mean, you guys have been to school a lot and taken one of the hardest tests in the world, right? So you guys know what it’s like to have all the expertise But balancing that with those human condition skills, right? You’re also humans. You need to remember that. This is literally the conversation I’ve had with I don’t know how many doctors.
You’re a human. You’re going to feel working in the field of nephrology during the COVID crisis was very difficult. These doctors were in a bad place. Because there were two doctors that saw the COVID patients. One was the pulmonary, and the other was the nephrology, the kidney people. So, it was very difficult, but I had to remind them, you’re human, you have a human condition, and it’s always gonna be hard, but this So, this is your specialty and quite frankly, your core values are your specialty.
These are things that you can show up with and make them your superpower. You can be the [00:29:00] one who knows all of the soft skills and uses them to serve for your clients best and your staff if you have them.
LAUREN: I love your point that we lead ourselves first, that hit me when you said that, that this really is not only an exercise in identifying our own core values and knowing what they are so we can make sure that they are being honored, but it is not happening in a vacuum or to the dishonorment, I’ll make up words now, the dishonor of someone else, because really, that would not kind of be leading by example, almost.
And so how does this step into leadership? And what are the characteristics and qualities that Many lawyers probably have just from our training and our experience that we can really lean into to be able to not only honor our own core values, but also make that ripple effect to maybe inspire or support others that are trying to do the same.
ANDREA: And this is an answer that I’m going to [00:30:00] give absolutely every single person. It is the same thing. It is, leadership is the same anywhere. It is always making sure that what you do cultivates good leadership qualities in yourself and in others. And another phrase that I say that depending on the situation, I just look at people and say, if you’re not willing to do the work yourself, please do not lead other people.
Because when we. Take our core values and know what they are. And then we don’t implement them Well, we end up being a narcissist and it’s all about me and please don’t do that. That actually does more harm So if you’re not interested in doing the work, don’t even start just just take your skills and do what you do but if you’re here, I’m gonna assume that you’re interested and Because the first person you lead is yourself there’s just You’ve got to be able to do the hard work that it takes to do it.
I mentioned a minute ago the difference between your expertise and your soft skills. There are amazing courses out there, books out there. I’m a [00:31:00] Maxwell leadership person. So this is international. John Maxwell goes and talks to other countries in their governments about leadership. And I, so I am very steeped in what it means to be a leader and a lot of it is humility.
Curiosity, being willing to serve, and being willing to not put yourself first. You might have to go first, but it doesn’t mean you put yourself first. It means you’re always looking out for other people. And when we do that, the day to day demands that we have will start taking care of themselves. When you start thinking in terms of Your clients, or, and I’m sure you do that, but when you start thinking in terms of your staff and what’s going to make it a good environment for them, when you put things in place that will allow them to grow, then you will be creating an environment that allows them to step up and take over some things maybe that you don’t have the.
energy to do that you’d be surprised at the skill set that they [00:32:00] have. Going back to Covey, there’s that anecdotal story of the woodcutter where he goes out and just cuts wood and cuts wood and cuts wood and never comes back and couldn’t figure out why he was like getting fewer and fewer trees each day.
And. You know, a wise person looked at me and said, well, when’s the last time you sharpened your saw? And if you don’t sharpen your saw, then you don’t. It is imperative that we care for and grow ourselves in order to best serve and lead, lead others.
LAUREN: Oh, that’s excellent advice. And I think it takes a lot of vulnerability to do that.
And when it is done, I’ve, I feel like I have really seen this in my own life in the last couple of years. It also makes you more Compassionate and empathetic to others to sort of understand that we’re all different, and we’re all going to have different core values. And that doesn’t make anyone right or wrong.
They’re just different. But being able to sort of know that in yourself, I can see how that translates to becoming a good leader to help others, [00:33:00] because you understand how difficult that self work is, and really Compassionate, I think, to others who are in the in the middle of it to do when you can kind of see them in those trenches.
ANDREA: Yeah, and almost every client that I’ve worked with because I do individual coaching on core values and that kind of thing But almost every single one of them has left the coaching program and said wow that exact point I cannot believe how much more compassion I have for other people how much more patience I have my boundaries are better because I know who I am and I and and and they’re not boundaries that you set like out Here with your hand.
It’s not you like put your hand up and say talk to the hand. It is literally like My property has, I have my house on the property. I have my front door shut. I have three quarters of an acre. I have trees around it on the front where the road is. I planted some forsythias too close to the road. So people walk in between, you know, inside, but I let them do that.
I know that they’re on my property, but it’s okay. That’s a boundary. That’s all right for them to cross. Not a soul walks up to my [00:34:00] front door and opens it and walks in. That is not either my husband or my son. They just don’t, we understand those boundaries when we see them in other people. And when you know your core values, your boundaries become that clear, right?
There are some, there’s probably most of us, Lauren will live in a way that honors at least one core value, probably our top one, because that’s the one that when we get squeezed, we scream about the most, it’s like squeal, squeal, squeal, but a lot of us are going to operate in a way that will compromise the rest of them.
And it’s really sad to watch, but it’s just the normal way. It’s like the, the squeakiest wheel is going to get the grease. And that’s the one that we’re going to stand for. So these non negotiables that we have, when we actually understand them and put them in place, people look at us and say, they’ve got non negotiables.
This is, this is a person of character. This is a person and we all have character. It’s just a matter of whether or not we develop it. And when we have those things in place and we know who we are. Then we know why we can show up. And [00:35:00] I know now why I love leadership coaching and why I love teaching because I love to think for myself and I love to help others think for themselves.
I have three words that I want people to leave me thinking and one of them is that I’m spunky because I got plenty of it, but the other two are welcoming and wise and to lean into those to make sure that others feel belonging, to make sure that. Others receive from me something that is worth taking away.
That’s really important to me. And it took me a long time to get there and, and to, to sit with that and say, I only thought like 85 year old curly headed, gray haired women were wise, you know, or, but here I am, you know, and it, I don’t think that everything I do and say is perfectly wise, but I do think that when we start leading ourselves, especially for people who already have the ability to learn.
Oh my goodness, you are the best project you will ever take on. You are the most [00:36:00] fascinating learning you will ever do. And most people are afraid to do it because we’re afraid to find out what’s in there. But here’s another tip. There isn’t anything bad. You’re not, you’re not bad. You might have bad habits.
You might be expressing something in a way that is detrimental to you and other people, but you’re still, your core values are all good. Somebody like was pushing back. What if it’s a core value of narcissism? I’m like, well, then it’s not a core value because they have to be reciprocal. So if you want everybody else to be a narcissist too, and then of course he just laughed.
Of course it was a guy, you know, asking me that. But so I think that it’s important to remember those kinds of things as we move into this space, because, and the other thing is you don’t have to do it with other lawyers, right? If you’re afraid of doing it with people that might know too much, Find a community or a coach or somebody who’s not because who’s not associated with that at all.
Nobody needs to know what you’re learning on your own until you’re ready to share it. And if you’re not ready to share it, you don’t have to. And that’s part of [00:37:00] integration as well. It may be that it just becomes a very private practice. Well, there we go. A private practice for you in your own life.
LAUREN: Yeah, a different a different kind of private practice.
Yeah, I have to say this is I love talking about business and the logistics of running a business and being an entrepreneur. But if I had to go back, even over the last maybe half decade, when I really started to get to that burnout point and looked around and went, what’s wrong here? What gear has gotten stuck?
What do I need to work on therapy has been a huge help for me. It has been identifying thing. In this same space, they weren’t, I didn’t identify them as core values, but now I can see that that’s what they are and being able to set the boundaries around them has made my business so much more enjoyable.
I think it’s made my clients so much happier because it’s very clear and I treat them the same way. that I would expect them to treat me. So it’s maybe the least, it’s not intuitive that this would actually affect your business, your bottom line. But I think of all the things [00:38:00] and the tools that I’ve implemented, it’s been one of the best ones.
So if someone is listening and wants to get started and say, Okay. I’m on board, but where do I go? What is step one? What advice would you say is the best place to start on this journey?
ANDREA: Yeah. You know, they say the best time to start was 10 years ago, but the second best time to start is right now and you can, you can start here today.
And you know, my top core value is think for yourself, right? So don’t settle for those stereotypes or principles that other people are handing you. That’s an imitation even. And so that’s, and that’s the other piece when we talk about learning about business and how to do business, even those are. Ideas and frameworks that have worked for other people.
So you need to develop that ability to say, well, what works for me and what works in my area. But just because we call you counselor doesn’t mean you don’t need that. And you might need an expert in an area like this. I have a free core values downloadable. That’s the top of my webpage. I have a core values course, but I also am in the middle of a beta.
I’ve done a year’s worth of [00:39:00] coaching, trying to figure out the best way to do this. And so I’m, I’m, I’ve got a beta going on right now where I’m developing a I think it’s six or eight coaching pieces that go with the core values course. And so if you need somebody with, that can walk you through it, I can do that for you.
But if you’re somebody like you, who’s already started and already maybe done therapy and said, I never would have thought of them as core values, then that free little PDF or something would help you clarify and make sure that those are your core values either way, start investing in you. Because if you don’t have the energy to make it to the finish line, whatever that finish line is, because you’re mentally drained or emotionally drained, your people that you support, be they your staff or your clients, are going to suffer.
And you didn’t get into this line of work to not finish. Right? You didn’t get into this line of work to not win. You didn’t get into this line of work to fall short of the prize. So if you’re running your own practice, it’s not [00:40:00] just, it’s not just you that needs it. It’s, it’s your people and it’s your clients that need it as well.
LAUREN: Yeah, that’s so true. It’s we’re, we’re a lot of us are got into this profession to help others and then totally neglected ourselves. selves in the process. So this is such a great way. Yeah. We got to circle back around and yeah, get ourselves standing up straight and feeling supported so that we can, you know, that old metaphor, I guess, of pouring being able to pour into other folks cup.
We got to make sure our cups are full first.
ANDREA: Absolutely. Yeah. I think it’s really, really important. And I’m so glad that you’re doing this and that you’re bringing this kind of information to a group of people who really need to hear it.
LAUREN: Yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. Let us know where we can find that PDF, what your website is, and then any other place if someone wants to connect with you, where is a good place to do that?
ANDREA: Sure. It’s theintentionaloptimist. com, so it’s, it sounds like it’s really long, but if you put The Intentional Optimist, it’s probably just, it’ll pop up, and there’s a button at the very top of that page that says Core [00:41:00] Values Exercise, and I don’t know when this will go live, but that beta is also available, but I am.
I respond to DMS on LinkedIn and on Instagram. You can find me on LinkedIn, both through my personal page, Andrea Johnson. I’ll give it to you so you can put it in the show notes and on. I had to have a professional, the intentional optimist page as well. I have a podcast called stand tall and own it. And that’s mostly about women’s leadership, but.
I do talk about a lot of the stuff in there and, and if you just DM me, if you’re interested in participating in the beta or in any other of the leadership activities I have, I also come to, I also come to you. I can come and bring communication workshops and leadership workshops, depending on your staff.
That’s what I did with that. that law firm early in the year. We did a roundtable leadership experience that really gave them some understanding of what wasn’t functional right then at that moment in their organization. But just understanding who you are and how you tick will inform a lot of that. So please reach [00:42:00] out.
I’d love to hear from you.
LAUREN: We will link all of those wonderful resources in the show notes and everyone needs to go out and take advantage of as many of them as possible. I think that this will fundamentally change how we approach our practices and the practice of law. So thank you, Andrea, for all the wonderful work you’re doing and for sharing some time with us today.
ANDREA: Thank you.
It has been my privilege.
LAUREN: Thanks for joining me on another episode of A Different Practice. If you found value in today’s conversation, subscribe to my Solo Success Lab newsletter where each week I test and share what actually works in solo practice. Sign up for free at adifferentpractice. com slash subscribe.
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I’ve distilled nearly a decade of experience, including all the mistakes and victories into the [00:43:00] essential elements every successful law firm needs. I’ll see you next time and until then, keep building a different practice.
