Episode Description
Networking doesn’t have to mean awkward cocktail parties and forced small talk. In this episode, legal industry veteran Doug Hastings reveals how even introverts can build powerful connections with just five minutes a week on LinkedIn. Discover why your existing clients are your greatest asset, learn three key ways to improve client experience, and find out where an attorney’s true wealth really comes from.
Whether you want to grow your client base or expand your reach, this conversation will transform how you think about networking and business development. Get ready to ditch the business cards and embrace a more authentic, effective approach to building relationships that drive your practice forward.
Listen now!
Episode Resources
Subscribe to Doug’s YouTube Channel
The Ultimate Law Firm Associate’s Marketing Checklist by Ross Fishman
Learn about Doug’s Business Development Coaching for Lawyers
Get Doug’s free e-Book: The 8% Club
Episode Transcript
DOUG: [00:00:00] When you’re thinking in, Oh, do I make that phone call to the client? Do I send them that copy of the newsletter? Do I comment on their LinkedIn posts? Do I, what do I do to improve that client experience? That’s one question, but I would back up and say, you kind of have to, because this is where your matters and your new clients are coming from.
LAUREN: Welcome to a different practice. I’m your host, Lauren Lester, and I’m obsessed with all things, business wellbeing, and optimizing the practice of law for solo and small firm lawyers. I started my solo practice right out of law school, built it from the ground up, and now work part time while earning well over six figures.
I’m here to share tangible, concrete tools and resources for ditching the legal profession’s antiquated approach and building a law practice optimized for profit and efficiency. Think of this as grabbing coffee with your work bestie, mixed with everything they didn’t teach you in law school about running a business.
Pull up a seat, grab a cup and get ready to be encouraged and challenged. This is a different practice.[00:01:00]
Welcome back to another episode of a different practice. Do you know what I love to do? Crack open a new book, especially one that talks about how to run a business or listen to a podcast about the latest trends in marketing. Even grab coffee with a fellow entrepreneur and share new ideas that we’ve been cooking up.
Those are all ways I love to grow my business. What am I not doing? Signing up for events where I have to walk into a room full of strangers armed with nothing but a stack of business cards and a forced smile. That sounds miserable. I’ve struggled with squaring the benefit of networking with my own comfort level.
So to be honest, I just don’t do it. But after my conversation in this episode, I learned that networking doesn’t have to be only done in a room full of people that I don’t know. And today’s guest is here to show us why. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Doug Hastings, a legal [00:02:00] industry veteran who has been in practice and driving lawyer and law firm business growth for 30 years.
Doug’s insights shifted my perspective on networking, and I can’t wait to share our conversation with you. In this episode, we’re going to challenge the traditional notions of networking. Forget those intimidating cocktail hours or forced small talk at conferences. Doug is going to show us how even spending just five minutes a week on LinkedIn can have a huge impact in creating valuable connections.
That sounds doable to me. We’ll also explore three key ways to improve client experience because at the end of the day, networking is all about building and nurturing relationships. And trust me, what Doug has to say about where an attorney’s true wealth comes from, well, it just might change the way you think about your practice.
Before we dive in, let me tell you a little bit more about my guest. Doug Hastings is not just a coach. He’s a practitioner with decades of experience in the legal trenches. He’s worked [00:03:00] with international us and regional law firms, and he’s now sharing his expertise through one on one attorney and law firm coaching at lawyerbizdev. com. Doug’s credentials speak volumes. He’s a member of the State Bar of California, the New York Bar Association, the European Bar Association, and the International Bar Association. He’s also admitted to practice in California and the United States Federal District Court. But what really stands out about Doug is his ability to take the often daunting world of business development and make it accessible even for introverts like me.
His approach is practical, doable, and dare I say, even a little bit enjoyable. So whether you’re looking to grow your client base or aiming just to expand your reach, this episode is for you. Get ready to reframe your thinking about networking and discover how to make it work for you without compromising your authenticity or draining your energy.
Let’s jump into my conversation with Doug Hastings. [00:04:00] Welcome Doug to a different practice. So excited to have you here today.
DOUG: Thank you, Lauren. Very much. Look forward to it. What a great conversation we can have.
LAUREN: Yeah. So you have a ton of experience. You are an attorney. You’ve lived this life that we all find ourselves in and have been doing it for a number of decades now, but I’ve obviously turned your attention now to coaching lawyers and their business development.
And so I was looking forward to our conversation to really talk about. Networking strategies, not only in the traditional sense that we think about them with our colleagues in networking events, which Are honestly the bane of my existence. I’m really hoping you’re going to help me get past that blockage, but also networking in the broader sense of referrals from clients like networking with our own clients, which I don’t think we often think of now.
Networking in that context. So you had shared a couple of stats that I wanted to start off [00:05:00] with that I found really powerful, which were potential clients value a peer referral 92 percent of the time, which is like almost always. And that when a peer recommends us as an attorney or our law firm, the person they are Being that we are being recommended to hires a 66 percent of the time, which is like, that’s a sale.
I mean, like you don’t even have to do much work. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the referral is huge. So what are we doing terribly to not get referrals and what can we do better? So that we can really tap into that incredibly powerful business development tool.
DOUG: Great question, and I’m glad that I sent those to you in advance.
Let me just kind of build a little context about around those. The 1st was an ABA survey they did. On what do you find the, what are the top five most important factors when selecting outside counsel and Sure, they looked at your LinkedIn profile. They look at your [00:06:00] bio, they look at your website.
But what the biggest factor was a peer recommendation 92% of the time. And I think lawyers get away from the idea that we are consumer or their clients are consumers, even though it’s a B2C setting. Like any of us, even on major purchases, I’m buying a home. Who did you use for a realtor? I need a doctor for my kids.
You ask your friends. We all do that when we’re looking for goods and services. So a big client at a pharmaceutical company with a white collar crime issue they’d never had before might reach out to somebody, Hey, didn’t you have this happen? Who did you use and what was the result? So they don’t go to some magic, you know, compendium or, or look on the bookshelf or whatever.
They’re like a consumer. They act like consumer. And, and that’s so powerful to know that behind the scene. You’re hopefully your clients are recommending you because that’s going to be by far the biggest factor that somebody considers.
LAUREN: What is the best way [00:07:00] to know if your clients are doing that? Is it just a direct ask of, Hey, would you recommend me?
Is it getting that data on the backend? So when you have a new lead come in and you’re asking, where did you hear us? And they say, Oh, a referral, getting that information. Like how do we practically get referrals?
DOUG: Fortunately, or unfortunately for attorneys, it’s part of a bigger project or bigger process for getting referrals.
I like your idea when a new client comes in or a new matter comes in, how did you hear about us? That’s really helpful to track and at the end of the year, say, hey, they came from these sources. Therefore, let’s put our efforts in the correct directions. But also, I think the idea that and this is kind of a bigger topic that attorneys think many times they know who I am, they’ll call me if they have a need, both with clients and with referral sources.
You know, I go to the home builders association once a quarter for those lunches, though. Those people at the table there know who I am. And if somebody has a [00:08:00] need, they know me and they’ll, they’ll give me a call. Well, maybe, maybe not. I think when you ask, how do you get referrals? I think attorneys can be much more proactive in that process.
We both coach attorneys. So we’re probably maybe a little bit different approach on it, or maybe a very similar approach. But when I’m working with attorneys, I’m saying, let’s do client and referral outreach at least four times a year. So staying top of mind, you might think they know who I am and therefore they’ll call me, but if they haven’t heard from you in a year, they might not.
In fact, they probably won’t. So part of what I try to do when working with attorneys is let’s just develop a simple calendar. Once a quarter, you’re going to be reaching out to those great referral sources. You’re going to be reaching out to maybe three top clients. And let’s do this for one year. And be regular and consistent and stay top of mind, not salesy, not bothering them, but with good value, add outreach once a quarter.
It’s amazing how well that works to get [00:09:00] referrals.
LAUREN: Yeah, I was just going to ask you, I’m assuming that this is not a sales pitch four times a year, because that would turn me off if I was on the receiving end of that. So what is that value if you’re sending it to your top three client referrals, folks who have worked with you, that might look a little bit different in terms of what you’re sending than if you’re sending it to, you BNI.
Contacts or your colleagues that you, you know, have known over the years. Are we crafting different content, different messaging to each of those? Or is it the same just sort of basic value? Hey, here’s the latest in my area.
DOUG: It could be both. And probably, look, that’s not that heavy of an ask. Okay, three referral sources, three clients, four times a year.
Okay, once a quarter, here it comes. Let me see, what am I going to talk to this client about? You know, we’ve got this webinar coming up that our tax people are putting on. I bet their finance people will find it interesting or, you know, how it works. I saw [00:10:00] this article in the Wall Street Journal directly related to your industry.
I agree. There’s an event coming up. I thought maybe we could co present at it. What do you think at the Home Builders Association? Gosh, it’s pretty easy to come up with four outreach topics that are valuable to the client. They’re, they’re meaningful and you’re not asking for business at all.
LAUREN: It’s really just kind of sitting down like you’re saying and just really thinking about it.
I find it really easy to plan it out, like doing it all at once saying, okay, well, what are we going to be my four in each quarter? Get it done at once, almost write it at once, maybe tweak it. In the time of year, maybe it’s not as relevant anymore. What I thought would be relevant in June is not, and I can tweak it, but it is helpful for me to batch work it versus feeling like, Oh, I got to do it again.
And then it almost, even though it’s the same work, like it feels heavier, if that makes sense.
DOUG: Yeah, yeah, sure. And you could do that. I mean, really it’s a, it’s a two line email. It’s not a big treatise. Saw this, thought it was [00:11:00] interesting. Take a look at the third paragraph, you know, customize it a little bit.
No, let them know that you, you’re not just forwarding some article to them and you could write that in three minutes and set it in drafts. And you’re right. You could do the whole thing in advance or. Or, you know, when you have time, try to knock out as much of that as, as possible. Just thinking about referrals and introductions are really, really helpful.
Again, this is not asking for work, it’s, you know, with BNI or Home Bill Association or the New York Tax Attorney Association, whatever it happens to be. Does a client or a referral source have some need? That you know, somebody that does that, you know, Sally over at Smith and Jones, Sally Smith does great HR handbooks and employee training and staff training on these new employment issues.
She would be great for you because you mentioned this. I don’t do that. I do tax work, but I know Sally and I know you have a need and let me put you two together. Again, you’re not asking for work, but you’re, you’re being [00:12:00] more top of mind and you’re working that referral network.
LAUREN: Really creating value in all those different ways.
When somebody does give us a referral. So we, we track our marketing leads and they say, you know, John Smith sent me that somebody, maybe you’ve been cultivating that relationship. Is there a good way? Other than a basic thank you, should we be doing more to recognize that we got the referral and to give back and to have that two way street open so that we’re not just taking, taking, taking, but also being gracious and grateful for having that connection?
DOUG: Yes, and yes, of course. Hey, we just got this, you know, so and so called and she said that she referred her to us and I’m so appreciative of that. Let’s make sure we catch up next month with a lunch or whatever. So certainly just the basic thank you. And kind of like we’re mentioning here, calendaring and mapping it out, you know, that happened.
So that’s so valuable to me. Let me do this for you. [00:13:00] More time a year outreach to that person who just sent me a piece of business. I hadn’t thought of them before and they’re not on my list. So yes, the initial thank you, but then kind of, you know, making sure that you’re staying consistent and, and top of mind with that referral would be a great idea.
And it’s amazing how, how often law firms and attorneys don’t track that type of stuff. Where do our matters come from? Where do our new clients come from? And let’s review that at the end of the year. So tracking was great. Yes. An initial thank you is great, but then some more frequent outreach, I think would be warranted.
LAUREN: I really like this approach to networking because again, that. That word is very bad. That’s a four letter word to me. It’s a very bad taste in my mouth, because I traditionally think of it as going into a massive room with all of these people I don’t know, and my personality just wants to, like, run out the door.
Like, that’s not comfortable for me at all. So I very [00:14:00] much thrive on the one on one relationships, and the way you’re talking about it is just have one on one relationships. Just think, oh, I met, you know, Tom. Through however, maybe he was a opposing counsel or you went to a bar event that was smaller and you just happened to chat with just him.
You don’t have to chat with everybody in the room. How can you, hey, let’s go out and grab coffee and have a one on one conversation if that’s more your speed so that networking doesn’t have to be this very narrow definition, but is really just making connections throughout the year is what I’m hearing you say.
DOUG: Yes, and your ideas about, you know, how you would meet somebody then turn that into a one on one coffee opportunity is great. And I think the concept of, and I see, and you see it as well in the work that you do, networking has shifted and changed, some of it, just a concrete example, like LinkedIn. I can communicate with people all around the globe.
I’m part of this task force. I’m part of this group, interest [00:15:00] group. We have, you know, I share content with that group. I’m networking with people without even leaving my office and boy, that can be so valuable. So networking doesn’t have to be the cocktail party thing. It is, and it can be. But networking could be so much more.
It just, that’s one example of a way to do it without having to leave, even leave your desk.
LAUREN: Oh, I love that. I’ve never thought of LinkedIn that way. So I want to, I want to push into that more. So how do we use LinkedIn? And then I know that one of your tips is to make sure. You have a robust LinkedIn profile, like something at least that’s filled out, but I’m sure there’s way to strategically put content on there and to present yourself for whatever goal you’re trying to reach, because I think a lot of folks are looking at, especially professional networks, the LinkedIn profile.
So what do we need on our LinkedIn profile? And then how do we use it as a tool to network without feeling Salesy, like without feeling pushy to reach out to someone that maybe we [00:16:00] saw made a post at, like, that’s really engaging to us or we really found interesting without like, I don’t know, feeling weird about it.
DOUG: LinkedIn, boy, I’m sure you know, Stephanie Marrone on LinkedIn. She just does a great job on how to use LinkedIn, not just for lawyers, but she focuses a lot on lawyers. So if you’re looking for a good source or a good tip, check out Stephanie on LinkedIn about how to use LinkedIn. Gosh, I think a great awareness.
Stat just to get attorney’s attention and I do this with them when I’m either one on one or in group settings BTI consulting came out with a stat, I think it was last year, 77 percent of the time a potential client is looking at you. They look at your LinkedIn bio.
LAUREN: That’s a lot.
DOUG: It’s a lot. And this is, you know, it’s kind of ties into the whole, Hey, who do you know that does this type of work?
We just had this problem happen. All that is kind of happening behind the scenes. You don’t know that call happened to somebody, you know, you don’t know that they just [00:17:00] referred that person to you. You don’t know that that person is now jumping on your website and jumping on LinkedIn. So, I think if they go and they see that little gray avatar, you know, there’s no picture, there’s very little content, it, it sends a message.
And maybe you’re not that 66 percent of the time phone call, because your LinkedIn wasn’t very robust. And, you know, you know, and the work that you do as well, that lawyers sometimes freak out, oh God, LinkedIn, it’s going to be so much work. Well, look, at the minimum, copy and paste your firm’s bio over on the LinkedIn and put on a picture.
That’s a, at least you’re there, but don’t shy away from it. This is the new networking. This is the new bio. They really look at the LinkedIn profile and care about it more than they do a bio, and it can be much more. Interactive, much more, much more active. Yes, I, I liked this post and commented on it. I uploaded our latest white paper.
Gosh, on a monthly [00:18:00] basis, do one little thing on LinkedIn, and be miles ahead of a lot of, a lot of the competition.
LAUREN: And are we on LinkedIn focusing on professional colleague referral. So I am talking to an audience of my peers to say, Hey, this is what I do, which for me is there is some overlap, but it’s going to be slightly different than if I’m talking to a potential client, like just the information I might provide.
It’s a different audience. So do we want to choose one or the other, or is it okay? If we have some posts that are Hey, here’s my latest white paper, which I don’t think in my case, like my everyday clients are going to know even what a white paper is, but my colleagues like that resonates with them.
Whereas if I post a video of me being a little more silly or maybe approachable as the more professional word for it, that’s going to connect with a client who’s looking for my services. Is that okay to put on LinkedIn? Is that the right medium [00:19:00] for it? Or is it really more on the professional side of the spectrum?
DOUG: I think it’s a bit of both, but I, I don’t think as you well know, and then others hopefully know by now, LinkedIn is not the place where you put, you know, doing jello shots in Cancun on your vacation.
LAUREN: No? Shoot. I got to take that down.
DOUG: Move that over to Facebook or Insta or whatever. Yeah, LinkedIn is a professional network, but I think it’s both clients and potential clients and your, your kind of network.
I know that one thing that freaks attorneys out when they’re thinking about using LinkedIn is I get all these requests to connect from some realtor in Florida or some person that I don’t even know. And I say, you know what, you’re right. That’s probably not how you should do LinkedIn. But I bet you have, to use a really old term, I bet you have a Rolodex with about two or three hundred people that you know.
Oh yeah, this consultant, this engineer, this lawyer, this Okay, those are the people that are your little LinkedIn world to start with. Don’t try to cast the net too wide. Don’t just have it be [00:20:00] random connection requests from people that you don’t even know. Build it out thoughtfully like you would if you were communicating with your network.
LAUREN: Yeah, it really should be no different even though it’s a different medium.
DOUG: Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. And what a great opportunity because you might say, Oh, I know this consultant. I’m in Denver. They’re in Boston. We worked on a matter last year. Well, when am I ever going to see that consultant again?
But on LinkedIn, I can kind of see them all the time and they can see me all the time. They see once a month. I do something. I mean, you know, even that’s a low bar. So that opportunity to network, to stay top of mind, to build awareness is, it’s just a great platform to do that.
LAUREN: One of the tips I heard recently that I think is really powerful and helpful is to go on and engage.
Once a week for five minutes, I just open up LinkedIn, whatever’s on my feed. That’s what I’m gonna focus. I’m not spending hours scrolling, but there’s a difference between, yes, it’s [00:21:00] nice to hit the reaction button, like, you know, you like, or celebrate, or there’s a couple that LinkedIn has. I think that’s, It’s something you can certainly do, but I heard recently putting a comment that either adds to the conversation or is not just like, congratulations, which I guess you can do, but is a little bit more, is a better way to keep that connection up.
Because sometimes the, you know, 20 people liked this post. I don’t know who liked it. But when. John from Boston, who I worked with, who you’re right, I’m not going to pass at a networking event because we live in different cities. He writes, Oh, this is amazing. We did this recently, or if it’s, you know, my family went to Mexico too.
You know, we put our jello shots on Facebook, right? That comment is much more powerful and engaging. So I, I don’t know if you have the same experience, but just thinking about using LinkedIn to continue that conversation and that connection. The reactions are not going to get it done. [00:22:00]
DOUG: Yep. Agree. And it’s like you passed John in a hallway, and you just read that post yesterday.
Would you just Yeah, I know this is audio only, this isn’t video. Just give a thumbs up and walk right by John. No, you take a moment to say, Hey, that article was great. You know, it’s great to see you break through in the Latin American market or, and that could be your two sentence LinkedIn reaction. I totally agree with you that just clicking on the thumbs up or clicking on the heart doesn’t do much for the algorithm of LinkedIn, but it also shows that, really, that’s how much time and care you took.
If you’re focusing on the two or three hundred people that I interact with over the period of five years, well, here’s a great opportunity to comment on it, like, thoughtfully, not in a big, huge, one hour piece of work, but a few sentences that show you care, That you read it, that you had something insightful to mention on it, and you’re done.
A lot more powerful.
LAUREN: So yeah, five minutes a day, I mean, you can really make a huge [00:23:00] impact for a pretty short period of time.
DOUG: Wait a sec, you said five minutes a week. Which is it?
LAUREN: Oh, five minutes, yes, you’re right, five minutes a week. Ten minutes a week, maybe?
DOUG: Yeah, ten minutes a week, you can get a lot done in LinkedIn, truly.
LAUREN: Okay, good, that makes me feel better, because I was like, shoot, you’re right, I’m not going to do this every day. That feels overwhelming.
DOUG: But also, you know, back to that stat when I mentioned a moment ago that just knowing that people that you don’t even know who could become clients or your referral networks that are saying, hmm, somebody just mentioned this problem, you know, I haven’t looked at Doug for a while.
Let me go on LinkedIn. Oh, boy. He’s at least actively at least comments. Occasionally they post stuff. I, it’s not just the bio and it’s not just the little gray avatar without a picture. I feel comfortable recommending Doug. So it has a number of positive attributes if you’re just even mildly active with it.
LAUREN: So we’ve talked about referrals [00:24:00] and creating a referral network and getting those referrals, which is a huge, can be a huge business development and is. A sale. I mean, not 100 percent guaranteed because we never say that in this profession, but pretty darn close given those statistics. So once we have a new client come in the door, we will continue to create that referral network and make it bigger and bigger by giving them excellent customer service, which I think a lot of attorneys miss that part.
They just think, Oh, we’ve got them in the door. Now they’re going to be a fan for life, but we have to earn that. That’s not necessarily a given just because they’ve hired us. And so I’m curious in your experience, working with attorneys and coaching them, where have you seen great examples of just exceptional customer service?
Cause we don’t. We don’t have a lot, unfortunately, in our profession on the whole and it’s something I think that we need to work on. So I always love hearing concrete examples of, man, this firm, this attorney just hit it out of the park. So hopefully we can all [00:25:00] internalize that and then start to do that in our own practices.
DOUG: Gosh, it’s pathetic and it’s sad, but it’s also correct when you say that the bar is kind of low in legal services. Okay, we got this matter, they know who I am, they’ll call me if they need any more work, and they’ll send people my way if they hear somebody else that has a problem. And that’s it. You don’t reach out, you don’t connect on LinkedIn, you don’t do anything else, and you just wait for that phone to ring.
On the other hand, if you’re a little bit more active with that and take that client relationship and really, like you say, grow it through excellent client experience, which is really the buzzword in the legal industry for the last 10 years or so, client experience, client experience. Understanding that that is your, your wealth.
That is where your majority of matters and and new clients are kind of come from. So I’m not trying to prevaricate too much, but two more quick little stats. Across the country, this was a legal marketing association survey a couple of years ago where firms participated in [00:26:00] tracking where their new matters and their new clients come from, and I admit it was medium to larger size law law firms tracked.
80 to 90 percent of their new matters came from existing clients. Kind of makes sense. You’ll see a firm say, yeah, 80 percent of our business comes from our top 10 clients. Those other 500 clients are occasional, but really we have a stable of really top clients. And when they track it, it’s mind bending to say, wow, it’s 80 to 90 percent of new matters come from existing clients.
Then you track, like you said a while ago about tracking where your new clients come from. They track, this was a two year project, where their new clients come from. And 75 percent of those came from existing clients and existing referral net. So people you already know. So when you’re thinking in, Oh, do I make that phone call to the client?
Do I send them that copy of the newsletter? Do I comment on their LinkedIn post? Do I, what do I do to [00:27:00] improve that client experience? That’s one question, but I would back up and say, you kind of have to, because this is where your matters and your new clients are coming from your existing people that you know, and if you kind of back up a bit and approach it with that, Oh, wow, I do want to stay on top of those three clients and three referrals.
Once a quarter during the year, it becomes kind of, it’s more, it’s more palatable, but it also has a better, why, why do I want to do this? I want to do this because this is where my paycheck comes from to be a bit mercenary about it. And so I, you know, this kind of backs into your question about then, then what is great client experience, which is kind of the second half of that.
Of that equation, but I like to get attorneys with the whole awareness and the whole building that kind of the why and the realization of how important good client experiences are.
LAUREN: Yeah, I mean, that number is staggering. 80 percent is phenomenal. I mean, it’s phenomenal if you can tap into that and use it for your business.
[00:28:00] But man, if you don’t, that could be a huge detriment because that’s such a high percentage.DOUG: Yeah, for new matters. But it’s again, for a medium or larger size firm, it’s probably not that surprising. And, and I think more of them are starting to be. To, to understand the value of data and maybe track that information more.
And then one other point that I’ll make with attorneys, again, before we get to what the actual actions might be is the ABA came out with a survey a couple of years ago that said a lawyer on average will work for four different law firms during the course of their career. And lawyers are like, Oh, you know what?
This is my third firm. I’m 45 years old. And you know what? That’s kind of correct. Some jump around more often. Some join one firm and never leave. Some are at a firm, then they go in house, they come back out to private practice. And so I think, again, realizing that maybe early on for an associate or a younger partner, like, Yeah, I am kind of mobile, and I probably will be kind of mobile.
Your client [00:29:00] relationships and your referral relationships become even more valuable because those can go with you. Those don’t stay behind at the firm. It’s your relationship. And again, in a mercenary sense, it’s your wealth, it’s your paycheck. Again, I like to do that and have them kind of like wake up and smell the coffee and say, yeah, I might be at a different firm and I don’t want ABC Corp to stay behind.
I want them to come with me. So having that awareness, I think it really helps you understand why I want to do better client experiences.
LAUREN: And so what are some of those examples? How can, how can we be better? Cause now we all understand the importance of it. How can we provide a better client experience?
What are some of the things you’ve seen that have just had a really great impact,
DOUG: a bit of what we’ve talked about, you know, consistent, regular outreach. Introductions to people that can help them, nothing to do for you, but it really is, you’re thinking of the client experience. And from the mind of the client, [00:30:00] invitations to things that would be useful to them.
And, you know, it might be the ball game. It might be a golf charity golf tournament. It might be the home builders association annual conference. Whatever those invitations are, clients say, you know what? I appreciate that. I might not even respond. I might not go, but I appreciate a few times a year getting some invitation to something that is a value to me.
I appreciate getting sent an invitation to a webinar. I might not go and, you know, Hey, it was nice to hear from them. I haven’t heard from them for a few months. That was thoughtful, but I think over time that, that consistency, that regular outreach, adding things that are value, not just clicking the thumbs up on LinkedIn, but adding a, you know, a thoughtful comment, all of those things help to create a better client experience.
Invitations, introductions, all of that stuff. And since the bar is so low, you don’t [00:31:00] have to do that much to stand out. It’s really, I mean, that sounds pathetic, but that’s kind of the truth. And clients will know, wow, I hear from this person. I’ve never heard from my lawyer before. I think also BTI just recently reported that 77 percent of in house folks say that they’ve never met their relationship partner at their law firm.
Wow. They might have had a phone call with them, but they never met him. Well, aren’t you in Boston and shouldn’t you go see that client for lunch? You know?
LAUREN: Wow. Yeah.
DOUG: Oh yeah. Anyway, there’s another little fun factoid for your audience.
LAUREN: Yeah, and what I love most is those are all doable things, even for us, like Solo and Small Firms, you know, I was just thinking, I don’t know, could I, like, swing it to invite some clients to, like, a Rockies game, because those tickets, unfortunately, are quite cheap here in Colorado but then I thought, you, and you kept kind of talking, and it was even like, well, I could do a webinar, I mean, that doesn’t matter.
Cost me anything but my time. So it’s not even like you have to [00:32:00] have a big purse of resources to be able to throw at this. There are ways to do it that don’t cost anything other than your time, but it’s just that consistency and reaching out.
DOUG: Yeah, that’s right. Lauren, I, I just started because you can start at any old time.
Just recently a YouTube channel from my own coaching practice with attorneys. And I do once a week, twice a week six, eight, 10 minute video on some topics. Here’s a couple of things. Here’s a couple of things you could do, put it up on YouTube. It’s, it’s pretty easy to do. I do them in one pass, maybe two passes.
So it takes me whatever, half an hour to prepare one of those and put it up on YouTube. And then I put that link on my LinkedIn, Hey, this just dropped on my YouTube channel. I mean, that’s just the kind of. easy sort of freebie way to stay top of mind, not a big one hour effort that takes a lot of prep.
It’s just a thought. I’m trying it. I’ll let you know how it goes.
LAUREN: Yeah, no, I think that’s awesome. We’ll have to link to that. That’s so fantastic. I love, I love a good YouTube channel. I [00:33:00] think it’s a great marketing tool. You’ve given us so many ideas. today. If somebody was just starting out, what would you say was the one thing that they should start with to kind of build on this journey to create a better referral network to start making those connections?
Is there like a foundational step that we all should take and make sure is in place first?
DOUG: Yeah, good question. And you didn’t send me that one in advance. So let me think for a second. No, that’s okay. Kind of all of what we’re talking about today that understanding you’re going to build relationships, understanding how valuable it is to be regular and consistent with them.
Understanding that they’re your wealth and that they’re, they’re yours if you build them correctly. Gosh, for like, you know, an associate just starting out, Ross Fishman has a great book called the Associates Marketing Checklist. If you’re a younger attorney, you should buy that and go through that. And it tells you step by step some of the things you could do.
Reaching out to law firm colleagues you know, as you start to work with clients, making sure that you [00:34:00] have some relationship that you’re building, that’s somewhat sustainable with them. Now, I understand you probably have a relationship partner, a managing partner, like stay away from my client. That’s my client.
You just happen to be working on it. But hey, you know, you have to start thinking in those terms of, of that two to 300 over my career network of people that really care to me and, and how to stay develop relationships with them and how to stay top of mind with them. So, again, the first thing to do, I think, is awareness that you, and I say this on my website as well, you lawyers control their financial destiny more than they realize.
You could just receive a paycheck and you probably would be as an associate for five, seven years. But eventually it’s like, okay, go out and develop your own clients because now you get paid on the amount of work that you generate. Oh, why didn’t you tell me that seven years ago? Why are you telling me that now?
So having that awareness as well, it will help to prompt. associates to [00:35:00] kind of understand and to take more action, I think.
LAUREN: No, I love that. I love that the thing to do is almost not some action to take, but is the mindset to get around that is the foundation, which makes a lot of sense. And I don’t know if I sent you this question, so I apologize.
We’re going to hit you again with one that you may not be prepared for. But I always love to ask attorneys who come on the podcast, how they define success, because I think justice, our profession has not taught us how to have good client experience. It has taught us, I think, a very narrow definition of what success is.
success means in the legal profession. And I have not had over all of the episodes, anybody say a anything close to, I think what we’re taught in law school, or maybe what TV or the media likes to portray. And everyone has had a different answer of what does success mean to you as a member of the legal profession.
So I’m so curious with [00:36:00] all of your experience and, and being in this for decades, where are you now in terms of what is success mean?
DOUG: Great question. And that, and it does change over the course of your career. I believe success at the beginning might just be landing your first job. I think where I’m at now is, and I mentioned this on my on these YouTube videos I’m doing.
Making more money, having less stress and having a life that’s that’s success to me, right? I don’t, I’m not ashamed of saying, yeah, I like making money, but getting more efficient and getting more strategic at it instead of just having to be random acts of marketing or random acts network building all the time.
That’s your, your, your go to modus operandi to realize, hey, wait, I can be strategic and I’ll actually make money and I’ll have less stress because I know what I’m doing. Right. And therefore I get to have the life. And so that work life balance, that stress reduction to me is, is what a big part of success.
LAUREN: That work life [00:37:00] balance. I feel like the, I call it the badge of burnout is what the profession seems to really. Put as the gold standard and more and more folks I think are going that doesn’t work for me and not being and not having being a lawyer be my entire identity that I’m multifaceted and I want to have a life and a family and go on vacation and have hobbies.
Yes, I know like crazy, right? Like the fact that that’s crazy in our profession for a lot of folks. So yes, I think I totally agree with you. My biggest, one of my. Parts of my definition of success is having that freedom, which I think is what you’re talking about of having a life like being able to do other things and using our work to be a catalyst for that can be really powerful.
DOUG: Agreed. And when you’re like that associate to partner track I mentioned a moment ago, or the random, not doing the random acts of marketing, being more strategic and being more intentional, it’s, it really is one of the few professions where if you get it early, you can say, you know what, [00:38:00] I actually, okay, here are the steps.
And I like being a great lawyer. I like solving problems. I like the respect and the, you know, the, the educational aspect of it and all of that. But I can also think of it, like you said, as a business and be. Organized in how I’m growing that and like, Oh, you just made partner. Now you’ve got to make your own, go develop your own clients.
Oh, you know what? I have a whole group of clients here and relationships and contacts that I, knowing this day was coming, that I’ve been developing since day one. And I, that really would, to me, would be a big part of success is, is having that intentionality, which helps you make more money, have less stress and have a life.
LAUREN: Couldn’t agree more. Thank you so much for your time today, Doug. This has been so lovely. Where can our listeners learn more about you or get connected with you? I’m going to guess LinkedIn, but I’ll let you.
DOUG: Yeah, LinkedIn, YouTube, or on the website. So my website is www. lawyerbizdev. [00:39:00] com. Lauren, I think I mentioned before we got started here that I have an ebook coming out, a free ebook coming out.
That’s about 25 pages of kind of how to do all this. And if listeners want to reach out to me to get a copy of that, they’re more than welcome to Doug at Douglas Hastings dot com, and I’ll send them a copy of that ebook on YouTube. I’m at lawyer to lawyer, so they can find me on YouTube, LinkedIn directly on the website or send me an email.
If you want to chat about anything, or if you want a copy of an ebook, I’d be happy to.
LAUREN: Perfect. And we’ll link all of those in our show notes so folks can easily find you. And I hope that we all reach out cause I think that ebook is going to be so helpful. Can’t wait to read it. So thank you so much, Doug, for your time today.
DOUG: Lauren, my pleasure. I love what you’re doing, the way you’re doing these podcasts with, with attorneys and with marketing people. Wonderful idea.
LAUREN: Aw. Thank you, Doug. I’m over here giving you a virtual high five because you just finished another episode [00:40:00] of a different practice. For more from this episode, head over to a different practice.com/podcast for the show notes.
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