Episode Description
Ever feel like you’re working too hard for too little? This week, I’m diving deep with thought leadership expert Nicky Billou on how to transform your practice from constant hustle to consistent flow. Nicky shares the exact process that helped one attorney go from making $70,000 a year to $50,000 a month (yes, a MONTH) while working FEWER hours. We break down his “Ideal Client Exercise” that will completely change how you market your services and position yourself in your niche.
If you’re tired of casting wide nets and getting minimal returns, this episode gives you the clarity to step into your zone of genius and attract clients who value what you bring to the table. Nicky also drops truth bombs about why undercharging is killing your energy and your practice. This conversation isn’t just inspirational—it’s packed with actionable steps to transform how you position yourself, market your services, and ultimately, what you earn.
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Episode Resources
Get Nicky’s Book: Get Booked and Get Paid
Episode Transcript
NICKY: [00:00:00] If you don’t get what you should get, you won’t give what you should give. Every business arrangement is an energy exchange, okay? Money is simply energy. It’s energy. When you go to solve a problem for a client, you are giving your energy. If you are undervaluing that energy. It’s not gonna feel good, and after a while you will burn out.
LAUREN: Welcome to a different practice. I’m your host Lauren Lester, and I’m passionate about helping solo attorneys build thriving practices. After starting my own solo firm, straight out of law school and building it to a successful practice that earns well over six figures while working part-time, I’m here to share the tools and strategies that made it possible.
Think of this as grabbing coffee with your work bestie while learning everything they didn’t teach you about running a business in law school. Pull up a seat and get ready to build a different practice.
Hey [00:01:00] everyone. Welcome to another episode of a different practice. Today we’re diving into something that just might transform how you think about your practice thought leadership. And I couldn’t have found a better guide for this journey than my guest, Nikki eu. Nikki is the definition of a thought leadership expert.
He’s helped folks become branded thought leaders in their space, scaling their practices upwards of $2 million. He hosts the number one podcast in the world on thought leadership, the Thought Leader Revolution, where he’s interviewed folks like Barbara Corcoran from Shark Tank, John Maxwell, Seth Godin, and Marie Forleo.
He’s been the force behind countless CEOs becoming authors and podcast hosts to share their expertise. And in our conversation today, Nikki shares his journey from being an immigrant from Iran who landed in Canada at 15 years old, to becoming a champion for freedom and entrepreneurship. But more importantly for us, he breaks down exactly what thought leadership is and how it can transform our practices from constant hustle to constant flow.
If you’re tired of [00:02:00] casting a wide net and getting minimal returns, this episode will help you see how define your sweet spot when it comes to clients. Nikki walks us through his ideal client exercise that helped one of his clients go from making $70,000 a year to $50,000 a month. While working fewer hours, I didn’t trip over my words there.
That is the power of focused thought leadership. So whether you’re a solo or running a small firm, this episode will give you the clarity and confidence to step into your unique zone of genius and attract the clients who value what you bring to the table. Grab your notebook because Nikki doesn’t hold back on some actionable strategies.
Let’s jump into this conversation about how thought leadership can transform your practice, your income, and ultimately your life. Here is my conversation with Nikki biu. Nikki, welcome to a different practice.
NICKY: Thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor to be here,
LAUREN: so you have quite the impressive resume, and I was really excited to chat with you because [00:03:00] you have helped.
Experts become branded thought leaders in their space, scaling their practices to upwards of $2 million, which wow, you hosted the number one podcast in the world on thought leadership, the Thought Leader Revolution, and you’ve been helping CEOs become authors and podcasts hosts to be able to share.
Their expertise and become thought leaders in their space. So I wanted to start with explaining to me and the audience, what exactly is thought leadership? What is a thought leader and how might that translate into the legal profession, particularly for solo and small firm attorneys?
NICKY: You know, that’s a really great question, and it’s extra super great because one of the most successful clients that we ever had.
Served small law firms, solo, non-partner based law firms, and I I, I’d like to include his story a little later on in the podcast when, when we get to that. So before we get to the [00:04:00] definition of thought leadership, I think I should tell you a little bit about my backstory. So I’m actually originally an immigrant from the Middle East.
I’m a Christian from Iran. When I was 11 years old, the Islamic Revolution took place in Iran and my late father, God rest his soul. He could see the writing on the wall that Iran was no longer gonna be a great place to raise a Christian family. So he and my mom, they got together. They talked and talked and talked and talked, and eventually they thought, we gotta leave our homeland.
This is not gonna be great for our three boys. And so they made a plan and they got us out of there. It took a few years, it wasn’t like instant or immediate, but from the time I was 11 to the time I was 15 when we landed in, in Canada, in Toronto, where I now live. This was their mission to really take their, their boys from a legacy of kind of tyranny to a legacy of freedom.
Now at that time, I was a kid. I didn’t wanna leave my home or my friends. But I mean, looking back, this was the [00:05:00] single greatest thing mom and dad could have done for the family. Right. Because I don’t know how much of your history you recall, but shortly after the Iranian revolution, Iraq invaded Iran and all my friends and I was.
13, 14 years old at the time, they signed up for the Army and they went to fight on the front, and most of them were killed or blown to bits because the Iranian army at the time would send young boys to clear out minefield. Like you think about how nutty that is. But that’s, that’s what would happen. So you and I wouldn’t be having this conversation, and I’ve become a champion for freedom.
I believe inside every human breast beats the living heart of freedom. Every man, every woman on this planet. Wants to breathe free, wants to chart their own course. And if you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re a a lawyer living in the Western tradition. You must especially value freedom. You must especially value the rule of law and that we have a society here that that believes [00:06:00] in that.
And frankly, without that, entrepreneurship isn’t even possible because without freedom, you can’t have free expression. You without free expression, you can’t have good lawyers doing their thing. And without good lawyers doing their thing, you can’t have free enterprise and you, you can’t have an entrepreneurial dream and a journey.
So, and, and myself, I come from an entrepreneurial family. My dad was an entrepreneur. My mom ended up becoming an entrepreneur too. And dad especially, he was an incredible man. Like if you knew him, he was the kind of man. That if you were looking for work, he’d sit you down in his office. He’d call all his buddies who were business owners and he’d get one of them to hire you.
If you were trying to start a business, he’d sit you down, he’d help you come up with a plan with access to capital with a few clients that you could get started with. And if you were a friend of his, you were trying to buy a car or a house and you didn’t have quite enough money. Dad would pop you up with a loan and he’d never let you pay it back.
And people always come to me when I say this and they go, okay, listen, this sounds like a Hollywood thing. This doesn’t sound real man. Like, who’s the, nobody does that, who [00:07:00] does that? And I said, well, the late great Napoleon Blue for one, I witnessed it, right? And then secondly, they go, well, why would he do that?
What’s in it for him? And I said, that’s a great question. I’ll answer it like this. He was a devout and committed Christian. He believed he’d been blessed by God and his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And it was his duty as a devout and committed Christian to share those blessings with his fellow man and woman.
And dad gave away millions, you know, and, but he was blessed with even more millions than that. And that’s the beauty of it. And I wanted to be like my father. I wanted to be somebody who helped people and who people looked up to, because. Years after his passing, people still come to me and go, are you Napoleon Ballou’s son?
And I go, yes I am. And they come and they shake my hand. I’ve never met these people. I don’t know who the hell they are. And they just say, I need to tell you what your father did for me. I. And every time I end up crying, they end up crying. You know, we hug. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s one of those [00:08:00] things. And Dad also always said to me, every human being on this planet needs someone to believe in them and love on them and pour into them.
’cause there’s days where you meet everybody. We don’t believe in ourselves, we just don’t. And that little bit of encouragement. You know, Jordan Peterson talks about it as well, like you may have seen that clip of his that’s gone viral when he says, just one little bit of encouragement will take somebody so far in life.
And that little bit of belief is like encouragement. You know, that little spark can turn into a smaller fire and then the roaring fire of belief and it completely transforms a person’s life. So I got into business of thought leadership and helping people because I wanted to. To be like my dad. And many people that I see in the entrepreneurial space, and you must probably notice this with lawyers, is they’re really good at what they do.
They’re good at helping people. They’re good at helping clients. But when it comes to business, that’s so good. I’m about to use a technical term here. They suck. You know, it’s a technical business term. They suck. Right. And the reason is because they weren’t trained in [00:09:00] it. I was like, I come from an entrepreneurial family.
I, I got my master’s degree and my undergraduate degree heavy heavily into business. I. And what I see is people struggle with sales and with marketing and thought leadership addresses those things. So what is thought leadership as you asked at the beginning? And in a roundabout way, I am answering the question now very directly.
So imagine the difference between an expert and a thought leader. So an expert is like someone who knows something, knows it really well, right? The problem is nobody knows them. You know what I mean? A thought leader is someone who knows something and knows it really well, but they’re also known by the marketplace for what they know and they’re valued for it, and people seek them out.
They’re sought after experts who are a dime a dozen. They’re a gazillion experts, but thought leaders are rare and valuable. Another way to put it is imagine. Two bands. One of them is a cover band, the other one is the originator of the Music. So which one’s the expert? It’s the cover [00:10:00] band. The other one, the thought leader is the originator of the music.
And if you’re a thought leader, you are seen, valued, and sought after for what you bring to the marketplace. And if you’re in the legal profession, imagine that instead of just being, you know, Johnson and Johnson, barristers and Solicitors, or Esquire, or however you want to put it. You are known as one 800 slip and fall.
You’re the slip and fall guy. You’re known as 1-800-ACCIDENTS. You know, or you’re known as the person who helps people. With real complex real estate transactions in the state of Idaho, whatever it happens to be, thought leadership can take your marketing efforts from grind, grind, grind to flow, flow, flow.
It can take money from little dribs and drabs to like avalanches and deluges of money coming your way. That’s the beauty of thought leadership and this fellow that I told you about who was a client of ours, his name is Carl Kramer. [00:11:00] And sadly he passed away two summers ago, but before he passed away, he came to, to see us and said, Hey, I, I hear you help people, you know, grow their businesses.
And I said, yes. He said, what’s this thought leadership thing? And I explained it to him and he said, well, I think I might need that. He said, I, I used to be an executive vice president at a manufacturing company. I used to make a lot of money, 350 grand a year, but. I got burnt out ’cause I worked 60 hours a week and he was 57 at the time.
He says, I’m done with it. God, that’s the age I am now. That’s crazy, right? So I said, he said, can you help me? I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can help you. He said, I just wanna make the money I made before, but I don’t wanna work that hard. I said, okay, okay. So we looked at what he did and he said, well, I’m a business coach now.
I said, okay. He says, but I only make 70 grand a year. Like I took an 80% haircut on my income. I said, all. Said so, so what do we do? I said, well, who do you help? He said, well, I’m, I’m good at business. I can help anybody with any business problem. And I said, that’s why you only making 70 grand. He said, explain, you only making 70 grand because nobody knows why they should work with you.[00:12:00]
When you say, I can help anybody with any business problem, that is not comforting to people. That’s the opposite of comforting that makes them think You really don’t know what you’re doing. You’re not really an expert. And you’re just desperate for money and business. That’s, that is what comes across whenever you say, I can do anything.
But if instead of that, you could say, you can do something really, really well, that could be valuable. You said, well, how do we figure that out? I said, great. We’re gonna do an exercise. This is an exercise I created called the Ideal Client Exercise Trademark. Right? So. Imagine a Venn diagram. Okay? And the one circle, it says, clients I got the best results for.
In the other circle it says, clients I loved working with. And then the final circle, it says, clients that were easy to do business with. So clients, I got the best results for. You write down all their names, what the result was, and then you write down what the impact was on you, how it made you feel, what the impact was on them.
Second one, clients. I loved working with their names, what I [00:13:00] loved about working with them, what the impact was on me and what the impact was on them that I loved working with them. And then finally, clients who are easy to do business with. Paid on time, paid in full. Lots of referrals, valued my wisdom. So write all that down.
Interestingly enough, there were a select group of clients in Carl’s case that checked all three of those boxes. That is the ideal client. That is the mythical ideal client. So here’s what we figured out. They were lawyers. They were all lawyers, and they were small. Solo practitioner, law firm owners, and their number one challenge was business growth.
They all wanted to grow. And so Carl loved business growth, was really good at it. That was kind of his, his jam, his superpower. So Carl had conversations with these lawyers and he started to put himself out there as the fellow who worked with small solo practitioner law firms. I. [00:14:00] And there had to be at least a certain size, like a half a million a year, and they had to have an ambition to grow.
Like if you didn’t want to grow, he didn’t wanna talk to you. And so he started talking to them. Now he had another problem, and some of your lawyers might be able to relate to this. He undercharged. He undercharged. He just felt that this was all the market would pay him. Now I’m about to say something again that I came up with that is really, really important for you and for all your listeners.
To really pay attention to. If you don’t get what you should get, you won’t give what you should give. I’m gonna repeat that. If you don’t get what you should get, you won’t give what you should give. Every business arrangement is an energy exchange, okay? Money is simply energy. It’s energy. When you go to solve a problem for a client, you are giving your energy.
If you are undervaluing that energy. It’s not gonna feel good. And [00:15:00] after a while you will burn out because you’re giving way more than you’re getting back. And so in Carl’s case, I helped him raise his fees and I helped him charge in a way that he’d never have an issue getting paid again. I’m I, I told him he had to collect, I.
Upfront, a full year’s worth of fees, which blew him away at first. So Carl was doing 70 grand a year, which was about $6,000 a month or so, little less. Within six months. He was doing 50 grand a month. A month, and he never worked more than 25 hours a week at 50 grand a month. He got so excited after three months in a row of 50 grand.
That He said, I think I wanna see if I can do a hundred grand. So he did what we taught him and he went to a hundred grand, but then he was working 45 hours a week. He didn’t wanna work that many hours. He liked 25 hours. So he said, you know what? It was great, great and all doing the a hundred grand, but I like 25 hours a week.
So he went back down to 50 grand. [00:16:00] And here’s, here’s the thing. Carl passed away four years later from pancreatic cancer, and that’s really sad. But I’ll tell you what would’ve been sadder. It would’ve been sadder if he passed away without having met me to help him reach his full potential as a man, as a human, and as a business owner, that would’ve been infinitely sad because the great Wayne Dyer.
Who is one of the greatest personal development authors of all time? One said that the saddest epitaph that a man or a woman can have is here lies Carl. He died with his life potential fully. I.
LAUREN: Yeah, it really gives us a new perspective for the work that we’re doing as attorneys. I think, like you said, a lot of us got into this profession to help people and we have a lot of just really good intention folks who wanna make a difference in the world, who really wanna kind of lift the those.
Folks in our community up who are not getting [00:17:00] a fair shake, who are, you know, the David and Goliath kind of metaphor. So I think that this can be really powerful and really bring back to a lot of us that feeling of purpose. Because when we’re lawyers and entrepreneurs, which I love that purpose can sometimes get, feel diminished because we’re focused on.
Running the business and doing the lawyering and we don’t sort of get it. And that value like you’re talking about. And then when we have clients who aren’t paying now, we’re resenting them. Now we’re working 90 hours a week and then we get burned out and we lose. Wonderful people from our profession because they just got burnt out and it just didn’t work for them.
And that always just breaks my heart. So this idea of being able to niche down, which I think a lot of solo and small firm attorneys are afraid of doing because it feels like, well, I’m just gonna make my market so much smaller and I’m not going to do as much business. Whereas if I cast this huge net, isn’t that more people and more business?
So I [00:18:00] love your idea of, no, let’s find the target. Client and be able to really focus on them, and that actually counterintuitively will give you more revenue and be able to really have you become an expert. So if an attorney wanted to do that, found that target market in the ven diagram, the target client.
What are the steps that they should be looking to take to start to position themselves as a thought leader? Like you said, they’re the contracts person in Idaho, or you know, they do workers’ comp in Virginia, whatever it is that they want to be known as. How do they then start to become known as that in the greater community?
NICKY: That’s a great question. So you need to focus your messaging. On your client, okay? One of the biggest mistakes people make is they start to talk about the thing they do and how awesome it’s, I got news for you. Nobody cares. They really don’t. You may think they do, but [00:19:00] I’m gonna assure you, they don’t care.
Listen, you and I, we like each other. We’re enjoying this conversation. You don’t care what I do. You haven’t got, you don’t. The only reason you’re interested in me being on the show is you want to know how this is gonna help your show and how it’s gonna help your listener. And that’s the proper thing for you to be focused on.
Not, gee, I wonder what Nikki does and what’s the nuance of that? And you, it’s irrelevant. It’s completely irrelevant. And your clients feel the same way. So once you’ve figured out who your ideal client is, you need to understand, well, what’s their problem? Because you’re only in business for one reason.
That is to solve problems for people for a profit problems people profit, acute problems for awesome people, and an amazing profit. That is the inspiring purpose of business. So if you wanna position yourself, you wanna position yourself as the attorney who can solve this one set of problems for this one set of [00:20:00] people better than any other attorney.
That’s what you need to focus on. So to use an example, let’s say there’s a group of folks who are in the real estate business and they purchase foreclosed properties, let’s say that’s their whole deal. They go and they purchase foreclosed properties. And you’ve decided that you are the expert in understanding the problems of foreclosed properties for buyers, that’s all your positioning needs to be about.
Hi, I’m Lauren, and I’m the foreclosed property attorney for the State of Virginia. If you’re looking to purchase foreclosed properties in the state of Virginia, these are four or five problems. That you are going to encounter and you need to be aware of so they don’t bite you in the bum. Right? So, and you’re gonna go, problem one, problem two, problem three, problem four, problem five.
And these are some potential ways which you can ameliorate these problems. You start speaking like that, the marketplace is gonna go, oh, that Lauren, she knows her stuff. Okay, well, I, you know what? I just [00:21:00] ran into that problem the other day with a, with a piece of property I’m looking to buy. I’m gonna give her a call.
Boom. That I. It means that instead of knocking on cold hard doors, you have wide open, warm, welcoming ones that are put in front of you. That’s effective commercial talk leadership.
LAUREN: That makes so much sense and it feels. Wonderful that it’s not some magic mystic like marketing. I have to like figure out this certain language.
It’s almost like the more you can simplify and concentrate ju, when you do that, it like works itself out. It’s not, you have to do that and then think of this magical way to actually explain it. You just explain the problem that you solve and if you know that very clearly, it kind of takes care of itself.
NICKY: Clients are. Looking for something. When they go to do business with someone, the first thing they’re looking for is they’re looking for a good human being. Somebody who cares. Somebody who’s [00:22:00] not just looking to grab a commission check. They don’t want you to be wreaking of commission breath, right? None of that.
So that’s the first thing. So. Past that barrier. The second thing they’re looking for is they’re looking for clarity. That someone understands their problem, probably even better than they do, because if they really understood their problem, they’d probably be solving it, right? So they want clarity from you and you know, so the first one is they’re looking for caring, right?
Caring. The second one is clarity. And third, they’re looking for certainty that you are very certain you can help ’em solve this problem, because they are not at all certain that they can’t, or the problem can even be solved. If you demonstrate caring, clarity, and certainty, boom, boom. You’re gonna get the business.
You’re gonna get the business. If any of those three is weak or wobbly. Chances are you won’t get the business.
LAUREN: No, that makes a lot of sense. And yeah, I like that it’s simplistic. It doesn’t feel overwhelming and it feels doable. We have to put the work in to [00:23:00] decide what our market is going to be and be able to talk about it in a very clear way with potential clients.
But once we can do that, that’s not, there’s not anything more complex about it. I like that. It’s very simplistic. Can you talk a little bit for any listeners, and myself included, obviously I have a podcast, but for anyone who might be thinking of having a podcast, writing a book, being able to put something out into the world to show that they are this ex, this thought leader, not expert, that leader in their particular space, but what are the benefits of.
Creating either of those or something different. And then I guess, how can they really use it to leverage their business growth?
NICKY: So they’re wonderful tools. If you’ve got your messaging down. If your messaging sucks,
LAUREN: don’t do it.
NICKY: Don’t do, don’t do a podcast. ’cause that’s just gonna show people that your messaging sucks, right?
So I’m just pink straight. [00:24:00] If your messaging’s good, do it. And remember, suck is a technical business term, right? So one of, I’ve written 11 books, okay? And I, my latest one, if I can give it a wonderful plug here, is called Get Booked and Get Paid, how to Generate Six Figures plus a Year through podcast guesting.
I. And I have been on 650 podcasts in the last two and a half years, and I’ve become an expert on how to be a guest on a podcast and leverage that appearance for leads, sales, and clients, right? So the, the message that my book has is, Hey, I’m gonna show you how to do this. You don’t need to be some big, extroverted, you know, professional speaker in order to be effective as a guest on a podcast.
And people go, a lot of people go, well, listen, I, I, I don’t, I don’t like public speaking. And I go, that’s great. One of, one of one of my clients who I taught this methodology to is a tax accountant. Now, Lauren, I don’t know how many tax accountants, you know, but you know, the [00:25:00] stereotypical tax accountant is a, you know, introvert.
Who does not really speak very effectively in public and has a low energy approach to public speaking, that’s this guy, his name’s Michael. So Michael came to me because he thought this was a cool idea, podcasting, and he was writing a book at the time too. And if you have a book, being a guest on a podcast is like super important for you because that’s how you’re gonna get word about the book out, right?
And so we taught Michael everything we knew about how to podcast guests. And then he disappeared and he signed up for one of our courses following that workshop. And he came to every class, but he never spoke, never said anything. And I’m going, is this guy getting anything from our work with him? ’cause he never says anything.
And I, I, I, I finally said this driving me crazy. I, I reached out to him. I said, can we set up a call? He said, yes. And I said, look, he said, how are you? I said, great, great, great. And he was actually pretty personable, you know, for a low key guy. And he was pretty funny too. And I said, look, I just wanted to ask [00:26:00] you, like, you know, how’s it going?
Like, you did the workshop, did you get anything? He goes, oh yeah, yeah, it was great. I’m like, oh yeah, it was okay. Do tell please. He said, well, I went on a podcast right away. I did everything you told me. I, I, you know, I signed up for Pod Match. That’s how you and I met and I got on the show first week. I was really excited.
I said, that’s great. What happened? He said, well, me and the host, she was really terrific. We had a great conversation and at the end of the show I did everything you told me to do. You just kept telling me that over and over again. She said to me, that was really great. I think all my clients could use your services.
You could really help them with this problem. And she said, do you mind if I send you some referrals? Do you mind if I send you some referrals on? Is that okay if I send? Sure. Absolutely. Would that be alright? That’s what he said. She sent him 14 referrals. Wow. Four referrals. He signed up four of them. Okay.
He may have done more since, but four at that time, and he made thousands [00:27:00] and thousands and thousands of dollars from one podcast appearance. An introvert, not a natural public speaker, not the most articulate fellow you’ve ever met. So if you’re listening to this. You’re an attorney and you’re going, I don’t know, man, being a podcast guest, being a podcast host, very, very powerful for you, but you gotta have your message.
He had his message. We taught him how to have his message. We wouldn’t let him go on a show without his message. We tell people, if you don’t have a message, don’t go on a show. If your message is crappy and your message is like, you know, cliche bs, don’t go on a show. Don’t go on a show like these people who go on shows and say, I fight for the people.
I fight for the people. That’s what I do. Are you kidding me? What the hell does that even mean? People are gonna listen to you and go, you’re slimy. You don’t, you don’t talk straight. I can’t trust you. That’s a red flag right there. And they’re gonna tune out, right? If you go on the show and you say, which is what Michael said, I’m a tax attorney who [00:28:00] specializes in helping Canadian investors who are interested in purchasing real estate in the United States, navigate the tax complexities of their investment so they don’t get bit in the butt with a massive double bite tax bill.
Now, I know that sounded a little complicated, but if you’re an investor that’ll make sense to you, right? Immediately. It’ll make sense to you. And if you’re a Canadian investor who’s looking at invest in the US and, and you don’t know anything about American tax law when it comes to real estate investment for foreigners, you’re gonna wanna talk to Michael.
You know, and this, this lady podcast host, she got that right away and she’s like, I gotta invest your clients and they need these 14, wanna invest in the us? I’m gonna tell ’em to call you. And they all trusted her, so they called him, you know? And that’s the power of it. And imagine you’re at, you’re an attorney.
If you came and you bought my awesome book and you decided, okay, the book was really cool, I’m gonna go do your course. I wanna learn how to go on shows. And you learn everything. I taught you there. And then [00:29:00] you started to go on some shows and you did everything. I taught you. You came on the show and you didn’t just talk about yourself and how awesome your skills are and how awesome how many clients you’ve served.
’cause really nobody gives. A crap about any of that. And instead you did it the way I teach you, which is very focused on how you help people very focused on that. Tell your personal story, but tell it in a very, you know, humble way and, and impactful way. And then tie it into why you’re so passionate about helping people the way that you do it.
Boom, that’s effective. Like. Everything I teach on, I’m doing on this podcast. So I’m gonna ask you, you know, and I’m putting myself and you on the spot over here, right? And being intensely vulnerable here, but how am I doing?
LAUREN: You’re wonderful. One of the best guests I’ve had.
NICKY: There you go. And that’s what I was going for.
That’s what I was going for. You. You, you follow me and. As a result of this, there’s three things when I come on a [00:30:00] show, I have an intention. Number one is I want to inspire the audience. Your audience are busy people, right? And they’re looking to be inspired. They’re looking for somebody who’s gonna give them a little something that’s gonna put a little spring in their step and a, a couple of takeaways they’re gonna be happy about.
That’s my number one intention. My number two intention is. I wanna make you happy you brought me on because let’s face it, you’re taking time, money, energy, focus to put a podcast together. It’s a big risk to bring a guest on ’cause that guest could, you know, SHIT, the bed, right? They could totally do that.
And that is a waste of your time, your energy, money. Opportunity cost, all of that. So for me, I wanna make sure that you go, wow, that guy’s the best guest I ever had. I am thrilled. I brought him on. I bring him on again. He was that good. That is what I’m going for. So that’s number two intention that I have.
Number three intention that I have is I’m an entrepreneur. You are an entrepreneur. [00:31:00] My business is, I help entrepreneurs grow their businesses. And I am 57 years old. My way of doing business is I do business when I get to know someone, when I get to like someone, when I get to trust someone. And in my experience, even younger people who are on social media instinctually understand that what better way to establish a new professional relationship with a fellow entrepreneur.
For me and for you, then, for you to be the host and for me to be the guest, we’ve gotten to know each other over this 30 minute conversation. As a result, there’s some knowing created, there’s some light created, there’s some trust created. Is it like trust, like we’ve known each other for 30 years? Of course not, but it’s enough of a trust that you’re gonna say to yourself, and I’m gonna say to myself, I take a call from this fella again.
If he had an idea I’d, I’d entertain it. You know what I mean? I’d consider it like, he’s got this book of his, Hey, maybe I’m gonna do a webinar and I got a [00:32:00] bunch of attorneys and I’m gonna invite him to do like a, like a talk to these webinar. Maybe I’ll call him and I’ll tell him, listen, you’re selling, you’re selling a workshop.
Do you do affiliate fees? If I bring you on a webinar? And I’m gonna say, hell yeah, absolutely. I do affiliate fees. Are you, are you kidding me? Of course I do Affiliate fees. We talk maybe, I don’t know what kind of law you practice, but I’m a Canadian. Maybe I might need services of someone like you and one of my clients might.
Boom, that creates an opportunity. Maybe you might be looking to grow your, your entrepreneurial business. Boom. This is the beauty. Of being a podcast guest. You get to an audience, you inspire ’em. That means that audience knows who you are, your visibility’s up and potential clients from that audience. I make you look good, which means other podcast hosts who check me out when I go on Pod Match and elsewhere, they’re gonna go and see what are this guy’s five star reviews.
I’ve got over 205 star reviews on Pod Match right now, which is awesome. And on top of that. You go on Spotify, you type in Nicki Ballou. There’ll be like 500 shows that’ll show [00:33:00] up. So if someone’s checking me out, they’re gonna go, holy crap, this dude’s, this dude’s legit. Right? They’re not gonna go and look me up and go.
Oh, okay. This guy’s, nobody, they’re gonna go, this dude’s legit. So this intention that I have, and I teach this, and trust me when I tell you, Lauren, nobody else in the podcast, guesting business teaches these intentions. They teach you, pay me $2,000, $10,000. Now get you on five shows, one show, three shows a month.
That’s what they teach you, and they teach you. You go on there and make sure your lighting’s good. Lighting’s important. Don’t get me wrong. Make sure you’re wearing a suit. Make sure the colors of this, or the colors of that. And I’m not, I’m saying all those things are important, but what’s more important that the lighting’s good and the suits the right color, or that I Wow.
Your audience. I, I, I wowed you as a guest and that you and I built a relationship. Tell me which is a better intention.
LAUREN: Yeah, definitely the latter. Yeah. Yeah. It speaks for itself. And one of the things I always admire about [00:34:00] just people in general is folks who do what they’re teaching. So I could immediately tell, like you said, you, I could see you know what you’re doing because I sat here and go, went, wow, this guy really knows.
How to be a podcast guest. And I thought, of course he teaches it ’cause he does it. I, those folks who sort of get up, you know, on the stage and talk about, I always hear it in real estate, well real estate investing. And then you ask them and they’re like, well I don’t actually, I. I don’t actually do it, I just teach about it.
And you’re like, well, okay. So yes, I very much appreciate that. You can tell you have, uh, honed in this craft so well that you can teach others. And that really is a true skillset. And that’s where, you know, someone has kind of crossed that threshold of really being an expert in their field as they can teach.
Others. So that has certainly come across. I am very excited. I’m gonna pick up the book I have been doing hosting, but not as much guesting, so maybe that will be my 2025 goal. And what I really love about [00:35:00] it, and I’m glad you brought about the, the story about Michael is. I am very introverted. I feel like I do decent with public speaking, uh, but I kind of get that imposter syndrome of, oh my God, I’m gonna sound like a moron.
Like, what if I say something stupid? Like I don’t have the confidence. And I think a lot of attorneys, whether it’s podcasting or just anything that they’re trying new for their business feel that way. So the fact that in this space you have a system. If you just follow the system, it kind of works itself out.
Is so helpful to get folks over that hump because I, I know, I feel it, and I know a lot of my colleagues feel it is when you go into something new, it’s like, oh, I don’t know. Am I gonna, am I gonna look like an idiot? So I really do appreciate that you’ve made it so easy for folks, at least in this space, to get that confidence just by following your method.
NICKY: Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I think. You know, I’ll tell you a little personal story for me in another area where I was not very confident because I think everybody needs somebody in their ear, someone to [00:36:00] encourage them, someone to believe in them. We talked about this right, early on in the podcast, but I think it’s a really great way to bring, you know, the conversation home for the landing.
So I used to be a top fitness trainer in my thirties and forties, and I got outta that field and I got into the field of coaching in, in, in particular business coaching workshops, writing books, and all that. And I’m very grateful that I did it. It took my income to another level. I was fulfilled at a way higher level, you know, all that good stuff.
But there was a downside to it. And the downside was because I wasn’t so laser focused on health and fitness, I dropped my, dropped the ball, took my eye off the ball, whatever you want to call it. And over a 12 year period, I gained over 50 pounds. Okay. So, and I, I, I work with my sweetheart and she’s, uh, happens to be one of the world’s most beautiful women.
She’s like, really, really stunning and gorgeous and, you know, like, I started to be embarrassed because, you know, I’m fat. And she’s like, stunning. Like, it’s just you, you know what I’m saying? It, it’s, it’s just what, it wasn’t good. I [00:37:00] wasn’t feeling good about it. And. On February 2nd, 2023, I, I had my shirt off and in my bedroom, my closets have mirrors on them, so I could see my gut hanging over my belly.
It was not a pretty sight, you know? And. I got disgusted with myself and, but it was a good thing because that disgust led to a resolve. And I said, dammit, I’m doing something about this once and for all. And I also made another decision, which was very important, that by myself, I, I can’t, I may have once been a trainer, but I’m not anymore.
And every year IK kept telling myself I’m going to. Change this, and I didn’t, I’m gonna hire a trainer. So I found a guy who worked with people, many of them my age ’cause I was 55 at the time. And he got them on bodybuilding stages looking ripped and gorgeous and awesome and healthy. So I, I, I was Facebook friends with him, but I’d never met him.
And I reached out and I said, I wanna talk to you. He said, okay. We had a chat. And I said, listen, [00:38:00] here’s my story. Do you think you can help me at my age? Is it possible? ’cause I was 55 and I bought that lie that, you know your age. My God, you’re, you’re too old. He said, absolutely. So he gave me certainty and I could feel that he cared, right?
But then I needed the clarity and I, and I just said, well, how long is it gonna take? He said, six months to a year. I said, okay. I said, all right. I, I was clear. I was, you know, I had certainty from him, not for myself. And I could feel he cared and he had a track record of results with lots of other people.
So I said, okay, let’s get started. I didn’t ask him what he charged. Think about that. I didn’t ask him what he charged. I didn’t ask him how it worked. Nothing. I just, I knew I wanted the result and I said, here’s my credit card. And then I said, you may as well tell me what you charged. Yeah. My credit card.
And he said, yeah, sure. You know, and he did. And. I told my lady and she says, well, can I do this too? I said, well, you’re in shape. She says, yeah, but I wanna be in better shape. I said, okay, sure. And I asked him, do you give a couples discount? He said, yep, I’ll give a couples discount. So I said, great. You know, Persian, Persian rug merchant me, right?
[00:39:00] So, make a deal every time. And within six months, I, I was 227 pounds, you know, five 11 I dropped down to 1 69. It was a 58 pound drop. If you go on social media, you can see pictures of me fat and me. Then a year later I did a bodybuilding competition with eight pack abs and, you know, it’s, it’s a different human being.I mean, you look at my face, I’m not fat anymore, right? So, and it’s, it’s because I found somebody who cared enough about me to encourage me and believe in me. And knew what they were doing enough to show me. And I’m just gonna say this to your audience and to your listener and, and to you. If this is something you might need to hear, if you’re looking to get to the next level in any area of your life, do yourself a favor and don’t try to do it by yourself.
Get yourself help. Get yourself, coaches, mentors, join masterminds. Join multiple masterminds. Not even one [00:40:00] like these people go, well, I, I got a coach. I don’t need another coach. Well, I got four coaches, two different things, but four coaches. They’re all meant to make me better, right? And when I did my bodybuilding competition, I had three coaches in the bodybuilding phase.
I had opposing coach. I had my coach who coached me on, you know, my food and my things. And then I had a trainer like, who in the gym kicked my ass. And this is in addition to my business coach, my sales coach, my relationship coach, all these other people. So you are the most important asset in your life and in your business.
Why are you going cheapo on making you better? Why? That is nuts. That is the nuttiest thing you can do. You must double down and invest bigger. I used to be Robin Sharma’s personal fitness coach. Okay. He wrote the book, the Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, maybe you heard of it? Mm-hmm. It sold 15 million copies back in the day.
He is like a world famous success author. I used to go to his home three days a [00:41:00] week at 5:30 AM and I drove an hour to get there ’cause he was far from me, man. It was crazy. And he said to me this, if you ever wanna double your income, triple your investment in yourself, in your own personal and professional development, hire more coaches.
Better coaches, join more masterminds. Attend conferences, buy books, sign up for courses. You know, like you are so valuable and so important and you need a plan. LeBron James, the basketball player, spends a million a year on his body. That’s why he’s 37 years old and he’s still playing at a very high level.
Ronaldo, the soccer player. Same. Same. He’s 38 years old right now and same, he’s investing a million plus a year in his body. And now you are an attorney and you’re burning the can at both ends. You don’t have a coach. You’re not part of a mastermind. You’re not attending conferences except maybe one. And you go all, all cheapo and you [00:42:00] expect to do better.
I’m going to, I’m gonna issue you a challenge in the next five years. Invest a million dollars in you. It’s 200 grand a year on average. ’cause if you do that, that means you will probably make an extra $5 million.
LAUREN: That was the perfect place to leave it. That that had hit me hard. I, I feel like I’m speechless ’cause I’m like, oh, I am my greatest asset.
What am I, why am I not treating myself that way? So that is the perfect place to wrap up and leave us all with that nugget to marinate on. If listeners would like to learn more about you or get a copy of the book, where is the best place for them to do that?
NICKY: Well, the book’s on Amazon. So it, it, it’s get booked and get paid.
I’m the only Nikki Ballou on Amazon. In the world. So if you type in N-I-C-K-Y-B-I-L-L-O-U, you go on Amazon, you go on any social media platform, you can connect with me and you can grab the book that way. But if you, if you are like an entrepreneur that is like, okay, I’m like [00:43:00] wanting to talk to you, I’m gonna offer this.
Any one of your listeners who wants to have like a. Complimentary consult, like no strings attached. No bait and switch. Right. Get 45 minutes of my time for free. Go to East Circle academy.com/appointment. Just let me know you came from the show and say, I want to explore this. Invest in myself thing. We’ll have a chat.
LAUREN: I love it. That’s perfect. We will link all of those in the show notes so everyone can grab them and take advantage of that wonderful opportunity. Nikki, thank you so much for your time today. This was so wonderful.
NICKY: Thanks for having me on the show. I had a blast. You’re a great host.
LAUREN: Thank you. Thanks for joining me on another episode of a different practice.
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I’ll see you next time, and until then, keep building a different practice.
